What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Do we need another title when there are backlogs?

Neil McRae said:
on new games yes.

But this is true in many industries, cars, baked beans, wine etc.
Click to expand...


Regardless of cars & baked beans that does mean that any crap work is mitigated and the liability is with the distributor? Basically if Stern make a dud it won't be their warehouse packed full of games nobody wants?

Don't get me wrong, Stern make my favourite games and Rush looks pretty good to me. However I can certainly see the distributors waiting nervously on each release because it's them that have to swallow any fallout from a bad call.

I didn't know it was like that.

Incidentally I do find the baked bean remarkably consistent and fairly valued. I can just imagine Tesco sh1tting themselves wondering what the designers at Heinz will come up with next. 😂
 
Neil McRae said:
Hmm this sounds amusing - what is the ”industry?”

because just about every organisation that does any business with any part of government has to meet 60 day terms with all of their suppliers -

www.gov.uk

Prompt payment policy

Information on measures introduced by the government to tackle late and unfair payment practices in both public and private sectors.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Neil
Click to expand...

Hi Neil,

I went from government (Royal Navy) into industry in 1994 to work for a railway signalling company.

I was genuinely shocked and appalled to learn, as part of my induction course, that the company's policy was they paid nothing to their suppliers for 3 months - no exceptions.

It caused problems for our project team acquiring some hard-to-get computer equipment but accounts held sway - they were unyielding.

So.... it happens and it has been happening with some companies for a long time.

John
 
Neil McRae said:
The seeker are you actually a real person ? Or some sort of ADA programmed energy sponge? If you want something always better to be early in the queue so folks order early and place a deposit down and Phil is pretty clear about the timeline and expectations of when a game will arrive. It reminds me of pretty much every other high value business on the planet -

oh neil you want a Omega snoopy watch - its a grand deposit and we expect you’ll wait 6-9 months. You also want the Bond OHMSS limited edition - we’ll pay the whole lot up front and if you get lucky you will get it sometime in the next 12 months or we will refund you.

Oh Nell you want a new M4 it’s a 5 grand deposit and we expect you to wait 12 months.

Oh neil you want heat pump for your house, you have to pay up half up front and you’ll get it in 7 months. oh a new sofa 20% deposit and four months wait.


honestly - start living in the real world.

with pinball the current situation isn’t that different to how it’s always been. You always had to wait until Stern was making a game I waited almost 8 months for my TWD.

you want a game put a deposit down, the UK market isn’t big enough to have loads of games in a warehouse.
Click to expand...
Neil being as diplomatic is I can be we have a difference of opinion.
 
Neil McRae said:
Hmm this sounds amusing - what is the ”industry?”

because just about every organisation that does any business with any part of government has to meet 60 day terms with all of their suppliers -

www.gov.uk

Prompt payment policy

Information on measures introduced by the government to tackle late and unfair payment practices in both public and private sectors.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Neil
Click to expand...
Automotive !

Not sure why it’s amusing ?
 
JWG9999 said:
Hi Neil,

I went from government (Royal Navy) into industry in 1994 to work for a railway signalling company.

I was genuinely shocked and appalled to learn, as part of my induction course, that the company's policy was they paid nothing to their suppliers for 3 months - no exceptions.

It caused problems for our project team acquiring some hard-to-get computer equipment but accounts held sway - they were unyielding.

So.... it happens and it has been happening with some companies for a long time.

John
Click to expand...

I agree it does happen but the "industry" push is to move to 60 days and even less. You don't always have to do business with people who treat you like this also.
 
Neil McRae said:
Not sure how Todd would know that - they put games on the line until they exhaust parts supply and they then move onto the next game they have parts for.

They then make distros aware what’s going to be available and how many games of each model will be available then the distros order and cross their fingers or the big distros, notably on new launches, the distros get told how many games they have to buy. this is why 20 rush LEs are coming to the UK with barely any demand for them.
Click to expand...
28 rush le actually neil
18000 back order what ****ing clown said that I doubt they sell that amount in 2 years
Stern clearly can’t keep up with production as Phil is ordering double of what he actually gets at the moment
One thing about stern if you order 20 mando pro you will get 20 mando may take 2 years but they will not let you cancel a deal is a deal
So when a group member says can I have a Godzilla please Phil once he has ordered it then it’s his roll on 3 months and you have changed your mind he can’t cancel it
They will never delay the 3 corner stone games a year they do as don’t forget these are probably 1 year plus in the making and have contractual agreement s to licensees
Also they sell out instantly a 1000t le on most models at 12k that’s a ton of cash bit more than the 100 Elvira on back order
 
So let me get this straight:

A manufacturer produces 1000 LE machines that they effectively force distributors to take regardless of whether they have orders placed for their number of alloted pins?
These pins must be paid for in full by the distributor at whatever price the manufacturer decides?

1000 pins @ say $9000 = $9M

No wonder they keep banging out new titles
 
PAX said:
So let me get this straight:

A manufacturer produces 1000 LE machines that they effectively force distributors to take regardless of whether they have orders placed for their number of alloted pins?
These pins must be paid for in full by the distributor at whatever price the manufacturer decides?

1000 pins @ say $9000 = $9M

No wonder they keep banging out new titles
Click to expand...
It's the same with car dealers though - franchised dealers have to make a minimum order each quarter of each model to continue with their franchise license. The bigger the dealer, such as a chain, the bigger the minimum order (and really, they are expected to order above that to keep in the 'good books'!). They also have minimum spend on marketing, for example.

It makes sense to me that Stern would offer similar terms to their dealers, if they want to remain 'official Stern franchise dealers' and have the extra benefits that being associated with Stern offers etc.
 
PAX said:
So let me get this straight:

A manufacturer produces 1000 LE machines that they effectively force distributors to take regardless of whether they have orders placed for their number of alloted pins?
These pins must be paid for in full by the distributor at whatever price the manufacturer decides?

1000 pins @ say $9000 = $9M

No wonder they keep banging out new titles
Click to expand...
Yes great money spinner isn’t it
But to be honest other than Beatles and some led zep you don’t see distributors stuck with any other titles
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
So when a group member says can I have a Godzilla please Phil once he has ordered it then it’s his roll on 3 months and you have changed your mind he can’t cancel it
Click to expand...
I wasn’t aware of this and realise how inconvenient that is for Phil when it happens but also when you’re not given a price, and your offer of a deposit is turned down it’s easy to spend elsewhere if the opportunity arises.
 
Lecari said:
It's the same with car dealers though - franchised dealers have to make a minimum order each quarter of each model to continue with their franchise license. The bigger the dealer, such as a chain, the bigger the minimum order (and really, they are expected to order above that to keep in the 'good books'!). They also have minimum spend on marketing, for example.

It makes sense to me that Stern would offer similar terms to their dealers, if they want to remain 'official Stern franchise dealers' and have the extra benefits that being associated with Stern offers etc.
Click to expand...
Indeed, but if you want to be a franchised car dealer you've got a lot more choice of who to go with (simplistically speaking)
 
Imagine being a franchised Austin Morris dealer in the 70's and they expected you to take 10 of these:

131555-1.jpg
You'd be looking for the nearest lamp post
 
Interesting point that Todd make on the Chinwag.
Stern have created multiple 'smaller' distributors in the USA. I believe he used the term 'hundreds'(?) . A bit of a cunning strategy:
If you have a handful distributors taking a LOT of machines, they have enough power to say 'no' and can leave your business vulnerable to a hostile distribution network.
Dilute that network across multiple smaller distributors and you remove the power of one individual distributor to derail your business model.
Shrewd move there by Stern; rendering the distribution network impotent to complain unless they group together.
Hardly likely when another distributor will happily take your business if you do not do it 'the Stern way'.
 
Last edited:
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
18000 back order what ****ing clown said that I doubt they sell that amount in 2 years
Click to expand...
I thought it was a bit far fetched but you know what the rumour mill is like.
That's why I qualified the figure with a disclaimer. One of the USA facebook sites today was quoting 20,000 and I'm sure by next week it will be 40,000.

However, we do know there are a LOT of back orders.

:)
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
They will never delay the 3 corner stone games a year they do as don’t forget these are probably 1 year plus in the making and have contractual agreement s to licensees
Click to expand...

I think this is the key point that answers the question posed by this thread. We might not need another title, but Stern absolutely do.

I saw a post by the guy who did the artwork on Rush, and he got the job in August 2020 - seventeen months before it was officially announced. If we assume that the timeline is roughly the same on all their games, then at present they're actively working on games that will be released between now and June 2023, and they've probably secured or are in the process of securing licences for games that will be released even further down the line.

Each of those games will have a contract with the IP holder that will most likely specify a launch window and length of licence, and who knows what else. Therefore they are contractually obliged to continue to release the games that are currently under development no matter what the backlog is.

Sure, you could argue that now they know about this huge backlog they should be taking that into consideration with their future planning, but why would they? As noted distributors have to take a minimum quantity of each title, so Stern knows that each time they put out a game they're guaranteed a minimum number of sales, which I'd hazard a guess makes each and every game at least immediately profitable.

Then there's the fact that the current situation is novel and unusual - this huge backlog is pretty much entirely due to the pandemic, both in terms of supply chain issues and increased demand. They have to hedge their bets that this won't necessarily continue, and if I were running the show I'd be doing the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom