If you dont want people commenting on a for sale post then put it on gumtree or ebay. But in that case I would suspect it would be discussed within the forum on the ebay thread.
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Classified discussions - Yes or No?
- Thread starter James
- Start date
How about having a system where others can select one of three options on the original for sale post for 'Expensive', 'Cheap/Bargain' or 'Priced just right' (or whatever wording is appropriate) and then not allowing price discussions? This would allow everyone to see what the general feeling of the community is with regard to pricing without it descending into chaos.
What would happen when its listed too high (but not grossly overpriced), and after a while the seller realises and knocks the price down 15-20% to where it regularly sells. Would then be priced right, but the poll may say expensive?
That's an interesting one..
Taking yours as an example.. is it part of the "pin code" that new members should be made aware of a remake, even if that effectively means impacting your sale? Is it your responsibility to inform buyers of this or should they have been expected to do some research first?
How far should it go? If something is about or rumoured to be remade - should people be advising potential buyers of that? What about if someone sells a pin with a cracked or broken part (and discloses it) that others know is unobtainable now? What about if someone sells a LE-a-like that isn't authentic but is dressed up as such? (e.g. TAFG). What about if things are priced cheaply or sold as players condition? Is it fair to point out issues etc then?
I wonder whether there can be a hard line between what is acceptable and what isn't when it comes to comments on sale posts. There are always going to be sales that ride the line between unnecessary input and letting newbies potentially take a hit. For the most part though I think the current system has worked well, and the community is self regulating.
On the flip side I do think there is a responsibility for any new member to gen up on maintenance etc before buying anything. Perhaps it would help to have a sticky on the F/S forum that says "buying your first pin?" with an overview of what's involved in ownership, what to look for and test generally, how some parts are consumables etc.
Monster Bash is a special case imho. It has obviously been in the spotlight due to MBR. Loads of MBs have been put up for sale in the last 12 months forcing an adjustment in the game's market value. A number of sellers seemingly wanted to achieve the pre MBR price, whereas buyers saw plenty for sale so were in no hurry to pull the trigger.
@Neil McRae managed to sell his quickly, presumably due to setting a sensible price, but so many of the others sat unsold for week after week. So it is unsurprising that folk may have commented on this.
@Neil McRae managed to sell his quickly, presumably due to setting a sensible price, but so many of the others sat unsold for week after week. So it is unsurprising that folk may have commented on this.
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D
Deleted member 2463
I just ignore everyone else post that isn't asking a question about the game I'm selling, its not hard, and if anyone makes a comment that might put a seller off, then I'll respond to it, I think that's a good thing as it shows you care and also know what you are doing.
I don't believe locking the threads is a good idea but I also think:
1: There needs to be a minimum post count before you can post an advert.
2: Anyone who has a shoddy reputation should be banned from the sales forum completely, if I was admin on this forum there are a couple of repeat offenders that simply wouldn't be allowed to sell via here.
If we where selling £40 engines for model cars then who gives a hoot, but we're selling up to £10,000 games and I think being able to post a warning that you are being done is for the good of the community. Price is relative and a game is worth what people will pay for it. I look at Kel and Beth's Dialed in that went for a stupid low price compared to other games for sale on here and being able to to say what a great game it is helps in my view.
Neil.
I question how influential comments on sales threads actually are. I used to trade government bonds. No matter what folk may think, there is a market price. Very, very few people on earth can influence market prices with talk alone - Donald Trump can. Angela Merkel can . Theresa May ? ... questionable.
It usually takes hard cash to move market prices. Soros did not talk the £ down in 1992. He borrowed tens of billions of pounds and sold the things real fast. That moved the market.
If some random punter says says "TAF is crap, don't buy it". That will have zero effect on a TAF sale. If someone says "THAT TAF is crap, I have seen it, don't buy it" that might have a real effect - but many buyers want to see them in the flesh anyway.
Most of us knew that MBR was coming out. This forum had dozens and dozens of posts about it. Most of us saw the amount of MBs put up for sale in 2018 across Gumtree, eBay and this forum. Most of us saw that they sat for weeks unsold.
There are a few folk I phone for an idea on prices before I buy or sell a game. But with all respect to Tilt, it is a bar. It is not an active buyer and seller of Machines. I have never phoned Tilt to help me price a game.
Tilt's comments about MBR did not alter my perception of the game's value in any way. £7.5k was all I needed to see. I doubt that Tilt's comments about MBR will have influenced any folk on this forum whether to pay £7.5k or not.
You don't really get shabby MBs anymore. Most have been lovingly renovated by wealthy owners. Decent MBs go unsold at 5k nowadays. Stick a decent MB up at 4.5k and it will probably sell, regardless of what Tilt or anyone else says.
It usually takes hard cash to move market prices. Soros did not talk the £ down in 1992. He borrowed tens of billions of pounds and sold the things real fast. That moved the market.
If some random punter says says "TAF is crap, don't buy it". That will have zero effect on a TAF sale. If someone says "THAT TAF is crap, I have seen it, don't buy it" that might have a real effect - but many buyers want to see them in the flesh anyway.
Most of us knew that MBR was coming out. This forum had dozens and dozens of posts about it. Most of us saw the amount of MBs put up for sale in 2018 across Gumtree, eBay and this forum. Most of us saw that they sat for weeks unsold.
There are a few folk I phone for an idea on prices before I buy or sell a game. But with all respect to Tilt, it is a bar. It is not an active buyer and seller of Machines. I have never phoned Tilt to help me price a game.
Tilt's comments about MBR did not alter my perception of the game's value in any way. £7.5k was all I needed to see. I doubt that Tilt's comments about MBR will have influenced any folk on this forum whether to pay £7.5k or not.
You don't really get shabby MBs anymore. Most have been lovingly renovated by wealthy owners. Decent MBs go unsold at 5k nowadays. Stick a decent MB up at 4.5k and it will probably sell, regardless of what Tilt or anyone else says.
Interesting, the above post shows some of the problems, DRD, gives his ideas on MB and the remake, I instantly the remake was Muted started looking for an original in loved condition.
I spent months, and in the end got a very nice one for 5500.
So DRD is up to 1k out and is putting a price up based on looking at eBay etc exactly the places he does not trust ?
A decent one sold to me and I am known for my haggling and being hard nosed having bought a few machines off these forums.
My point is DRD is a very respectable knowledgeable pinhead and yet is worlds apart from my experience in buying his example.
and I find that others on here who have been around 1 year or so, comment shi#e continually on for sale threads with oh this won’t be here long, cracking price, and I know lots of more knowledgeable pinheads will be like it’s ok, but not cheap enough for me ?
I think it’s great to have comments on bad prices to protect members and also cancelling or calling out the members that constantly hype up some sales
I spent months, and in the end got a very nice one for 5500.
So DRD is up to 1k out and is putting a price up based on looking at eBay etc exactly the places he does not trust ?
A decent one sold to me and I am known for my haggling and being hard nosed having bought a few machines off these forums.
My point is DRD is a very respectable knowledgeable pinhead and yet is worlds apart from my experience in buying his example.
and I find that others on here who have been around 1 year or so, comment shi#e continually on for sale threads with oh this won’t be here long, cracking price, and I know lots of more knowledgeable pinheads will be like it’s ok, but not cheap enough for me ?
I think it’s great to have comments on bad prices to protect members and also cancelling or calling out the members that constantly hype up some sales
Without comments the thread doesn't get bumped to the top so pretty soon its lost. Problem is that the majority of people commenting don't know what it is selling for.
An example is my recent TWD sale.
"Great Price, won't be around long" etc. Well, it didn't sell here so that was not the case, didn't help the sale and ultimately sold via a totally different channel. Now, those people don't know what it sold for, pretty much the same as ebay. Listed price <> sold price but I keep seeing "one sold for xxx here a month ago" type comments. Also the "whats the lowest you'll take" crowd. Used to be you listed it at the price you wanted, now everybody seems to think its a used car deal. This obfuscates the true sale price and we get pinflation because of the afore mentioned "sold for" mentality.
Short of some form of data collection of what it actually sold for, those people need to just stop it.
An example is my recent TWD sale.
"Great Price, won't be around long" etc. Well, it didn't sell here so that was not the case, didn't help the sale and ultimately sold via a totally different channel. Now, those people don't know what it sold for, pretty much the same as ebay. Listed price <> sold price but I keep seeing "one sold for xxx here a month ago" type comments. Also the "whats the lowest you'll take" crowd. Used to be you listed it at the price you wanted, now everybody seems to think its a used car deal. This obfuscates the true sale price and we get pinflation because of the afore mentioned "sold for" mentality.
Short of some form of data collection of what it actually sold for, those people need to just stop it.
@mission65
My take on the market is just one of a thousand. I am just as likely to be wrong as anyone else. Very hard to factor condition into broad pricing discussions too.
Like you I would rather have a good original MB than a remake too. The originals are still going strong 20 years on. I have a SS so I know my way round the boards and menus. Who knows what parts/ reliability etc will be like for the remakes in 20 years ?
A MB was listed on here at 5k a few weeks back. The seller said he got nowhere with it on Ebay. It prompted another forum debate about the MBR effect and someone said ...
"I think you can pick up a remake classic for £6250 from Pinball Heaven". The seller never indicated that the game was sold.
Personally, I got spooked on remake prices when 3x AFMs traded on Ebay last October for 4.1, 4.2 and 4.6. Loads of games traded in short order and I actually did this post on it as I thought it gave a useful snapshot of prices. At the moment eBay is dominated by overpriced BINs and starting prices. But Oct was a good month ....
One AFM deal, well maybe discount it. But it was three in short order. In recent years MB, AfM and MM had attracted very strong money on Ebay as they were trophy games for wealthy buyers. It made me think that the MB shake out probably had further to run
My take on the market is just one of a thousand. I am just as likely to be wrong as anyone else. Very hard to factor condition into broad pricing discussions too.
Like you I would rather have a good original MB than a remake too. The originals are still going strong 20 years on. I have a SS so I know my way round the boards and menus. Who knows what parts/ reliability etc will be like for the remakes in 20 years ?
A MB was listed on here at 5k a few weeks back. The seller said he got nowhere with it on Ebay. It prompted another forum debate about the MBR effect and someone said ...
"I think you can pick up a remake classic for £6250 from Pinball Heaven". The seller never indicated that the game was sold.
Personally, I got spooked on remake prices when 3x AFMs traded on Ebay last October for 4.1, 4.2 and 4.6. Loads of games traded in short order and I actually did this post on it as I thought it gave a useful snapshot of prices. At the moment eBay is dominated by overpriced BINs and starting prices. But Oct was a good month ....
One AFM deal, well maybe discount it. But it was three in short order. In recent years MB, AfM and MM had attracted very strong money on Ebay as they were trophy games for wealthy buyers. It made me think that the MB shake out probably had further to run
The above doesn't really answer the question about whether it's "ok" to point out the existence of a remake, when doing so will pretty much kill a sale on here if the guy is trying to get top, top money for an original, as @Kelauce did.
Is it fair that @Kelauce didn't inform prospective buyers that there was a remake available for the same price or less? Is it fair the the community dogpiled the thread to point this out?
It's a difficult one I think, particularly when you're ultimately trying to get as much as you can for something, and @Kelauce's "crime" was a lie of omission rather than a straight up attempt to deceive, if that makes sense.
It's a grey area for sure. People like that Baz guy who came on here were rightfully called out (and banned), but there have been sales on here where the seller has clearly been evasive about the true reason for selling (e.g. the very reason loads of MBs appeared at the same time), etc.
The post made earlier about mates of a seller coming in and hyping it up with "great price", "that won't last long" etc is a astute one too. Unfortunately it would be mostly undetectable unless you know who knows eachother.
Is it fair that @Kelauce didn't inform prospective buyers that there was a remake available for the same price or less? Is it fair the the community dogpiled the thread to point this out?
It's a difficult one I think, particularly when you're ultimately trying to get as much as you can for something, and @Kelauce's "crime" was a lie of omission rather than a straight up attempt to deceive, if that makes sense.
It's a grey area for sure. People like that Baz guy who came on here were rightfully called out (and banned), but there have been sales on here where the seller has clearly been evasive about the true reason for selling (e.g. the very reason loads of MBs appeared at the same time), etc.
The post made earlier about mates of a seller coming in and hyping it up with "great price", "that won't last long" etc is a astute one too. Unfortunately it would be mostly undetectable unless you know who knows eachother.
Do we actually think that people go around commenting "great game"- "won't hang around long at this price" etc. if they don't believe it? Honestly? @Durzel @mission65 ?
On the flip side, if it isn't worth that you could politely comment, actually, they go for XYZ - which is kinda the whole point of it all right?
Ultimately, I think policing should happen, both positive reinforcement and negative views - but that doesn't make it an open invite to be there ready to jump on the bandwagon every for sale post.
I myself commented on a recent TWD Pro on here that was absolutely gorgeous, powder coated, alternate translite, LED's (that I actually stole the idea from and put in mine I liked so much), can we not appreciate when someone has made a real effort now, or is selling something we see as a bargain? I mean christ, surely modding, looking after, showing off (in a proud not a, hey nur nurr nurr nur nurr nurr way) and playing the things is the whole point.
On the flip side, if it isn't worth that you could politely comment, actually, they go for XYZ - which is kinda the whole point of it all right?
Ultimately, I think policing should happen, both positive reinforcement and negative views - but that doesn't make it an open invite to be there ready to jump on the bandwagon every for sale post.
I myself commented on a recent TWD Pro on here that was absolutely gorgeous, powder coated, alternate translite, LED's (that I actually stole the idea from and put in mine I liked so much), can we not appreciate when someone has made a real effort now, or is selling something we see as a bargain? I mean christ, surely modding, looking after, showing off (in a proud not a, hey nur nurr nurr nur nurr nurr way) and playing the things is the whole point.
As always on forums ..... the discussion about discussion attracts more discussion than any discussion 
I don't know how likely or unlikely it is, really. It was said earlier that someone had seen comments like that on a pin that actually wasn't a great price, so shrug.
I agree that policing should happen, it makes this community better than eBay etc. I can stand behind everything I say and wouldn't knowingly ever deceive anyone on here or otherwise. I'd like to think everyone else was the same.
Who knows @Durzel 
Perhaps I am naive but I always play life with a straight bat, perhaps that's why I don't think about these games that might be played over a pinball machine that is for sale.
I have only been in the hobby about two years now, but I like to think I am fairly astute as a person with data and research - I mean I have spent my whole career doing these things - so my comments are always based on the information and data to hand, as you say @mission65 - for newer members like me, that may be a little out. I guess the whole point of policing as a community is about the mens rea.
That could be the poster putting something that's worth £2k on for £4k
That could be someone posting BS with the intention of getting something on for £4k at £900
That could be someone commenting on a £4k cabinet that's really worth £3.5k saying bargain
Without comments we get no steer on this, which is all it ultimately is, a steer, if someone wants to sell a cabinet cheap, buy a cabinet high then the deal will go through, but my 2p is that comments are for the overall good of the community.
Perhaps I am naive but I always play life with a straight bat, perhaps that's why I don't think about these games that might be played over a pinball machine that is for sale.
I have only been in the hobby about two years now, but I like to think I am fairly astute as a person with data and research - I mean I have spent my whole career doing these things - so my comments are always based on the information and data to hand, as you say @mission65 - for newer members like me, that may be a little out. I guess the whole point of policing as a community is about the mens rea.
That could be the poster putting something that's worth £2k on for £4k
That could be someone posting BS with the intention of getting something on for £4k at £900
That could be someone commenting on a £4k cabinet that's really worth £3.5k saying bargain
Without comments we get no steer on this, which is all it ultimately is, a steer, if someone wants to sell a cabinet cheap, buy a cabinet high then the deal will go through, but my 2p is that comments are for the overall good of the community.
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Just to add to this, prices mean very little when condition is not taken into account.
People new to the hobby have no idea if a MB at 5k is a good deal or not, as they don't know what to look for when assessing condition.
A mint restored game with a colour dmd is completely different and going to have a different price to a very average condition game.
For me MB is a £4.5 k to £6k plus game. It all depends on condition.
Newer games it is much easier to have a rough price guide as they should be in similar condition - unless they have been on site, so adjust accordingly.
I recall seeing a pin on here with a price about 60% higher than the last 2 or 3 had gone for. It was nice condition but not a premium restoration or anything. I was gobsmacked to see those sort of comments. Maybe they truly believed it but they were wrong
My 2 pence on this topic now I have some time.
Take the last machine I was looking at the walking dead le .Good machine looks fine price fine yet over 2 pages to to sift through and about stuff that should not be on a sales add I don't care for prodigy or links to them. The same thread saying twd is going to drop because the show tanked and buy a iron maiden lol wtf that's not price policing thats stocks and shares.
It's only one of loads of useless comments I think if you put a for sale add up and pics are fine and it's described right then is up to the buyer to ask in the how much is it worth thread or do some research on prices and not destroy someone's sale and it is the same few doing it .the fix for that is a warning them when they post and a 3warning gets you a short ban followed by goodbye ban.
Take the last machine I was looking at the walking dead le .Good machine looks fine price fine yet over 2 pages to to sift through and about stuff that should not be on a sales add I don't care for prodigy or links to them. The same thread saying twd is going to drop because the show tanked and buy a iron maiden lol wtf that's not price policing thats stocks and shares.
It's only one of loads of useless comments I think if you put a for sale add up and pics are fine and it's described right then is up to the buyer to ask in the how much is it worth thread or do some research on prices and not destroy someone's sale and it is the same few doing it .the fix for that is a warning them when they post and a 3warning gets you a short ban followed by goodbye ban.
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From the Cambridge dictionary:
forum meaning:
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Don't like discussion? Don't use forums.
forum meaning:
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Don't like discussion? Don't use forums.
I personally enjoy reading the banta on the for sale ads, makes them more interesting.
on a more serious note, Can for sale threads be time limited ?
Say after a week/month whatever it automagically gets set to a different setting ? sold/no longer for sale but probably something else would be better (OLD listing maybe?)
Then if it hasn't sold the seller can reclassify it back to for sale. The amount of people asking if stuff is still for sale and the amount of sold listings that are still marked as for sale devalues the for sale section a bit..
Ideally sold and for sale should be two different threads but I realise that might take additional coding if not available. This would mean stuff in the for sale thread is for sale and up to date
Say after a week/month whatever it automagically gets set to a different setting ? sold/no longer for sale but probably something else would be better (OLD listing maybe?)
Then if it hasn't sold the seller can reclassify it back to for sale. The amount of people asking if stuff is still for sale and the amount of sold listings that are still marked as for sale devalues the for sale section a bit..
Ideally sold and for sale should be two different threads but I realise that might take additional coding if not available. This would mean stuff in the for sale thread is for sale and up to date
You know - I think there may be an option to do just this..
I will check....
Edit - yes there is an option to run them for a specific number of days.
For me part of the problem is there is no “going rate” for a lot of games. It’s all guess work
Often we are talking about titles that sell once or twice in a year or maybe less. So the going rate is the price the last one went for. Foreign selling prices also distort the information
I stuck a BTDK up for £2750 at the start of the year. Had no real interest. Is it because I vastly over valued it or down to the time of the year? Another came up last week for 2k and was snapped up in mins. No surprise for me at that price. I suspect I could get my asking price if I stuck it up on gumtree rather than the forum (and used the old trick of sticking another couple of hundred onto the asking price in order to allow them to beat me down)
I’ve had a lot of my collection for years and as such my prices are anchored in my mind by how much I paid. As such I tend to undervalue a lot of 90s games and over value more modern games. How much does a modern game depreciate by? The AC/DC vault currently on sale is a good example of this.
I like seeing comments on sales threads. However does it also cause problems for buyers? Has anyone seen a bargain on here and had the sale fall through after the seller has been informed they should of asked for far more?
Often we are talking about titles that sell once or twice in a year or maybe less. So the going rate is the price the last one went for. Foreign selling prices also distort the information
I stuck a BTDK up for £2750 at the start of the year. Had no real interest. Is it because I vastly over valued it or down to the time of the year? Another came up last week for 2k and was snapped up in mins. No surprise for me at that price. I suspect I could get my asking price if I stuck it up on gumtree rather than the forum (and used the old trick of sticking another couple of hundred onto the asking price in order to allow them to beat me down)
I’ve had a lot of my collection for years and as such my prices are anchored in my mind by how much I paid. As such I tend to undervalue a lot of 90s games and over value more modern games. How much does a modern game depreciate by? The AC/DC vault currently on sale is a good example of this.
I like seeing comments on sales threads. However does it also cause problems for buyers? Has anyone seen a bargain on here and had the sale fall through after the seller has been informed they should of asked for far more?