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Wanted Bally 1982 2" White Flipper. Right Hand Side

DRD

DRD

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Does anyone have one for sale please. I have just bought a Vector and would like to replace the upper right flipper with the above.

I know these come as left hand and right hand models (so you can read the word "flipper"). Ideally I am after a right hand one with blue letters. But if you have anything that would fit, please let me know

Thanks
 
Welcome to the VECTOR club! And massive apologies for not replying to your PM back in December - how rude of me! :oops:

I requested exactly the same thing for my Vector when I got it earlier in the year (http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/bally-mini-flipper-shaft-shoe-x-2.11464/). The repro bats are quite easy to get hold of but they need a special "shaft and shoe" that I didn't have in either VECTOR (fitted with incorrect 3" flipper) or PARAGON which had a new-style one-piece 2" flipper. Eventually I found one on eBay that I cleaned up for Vector and eventually sourced another shaft for my repro bats from @Jay Walker.

I've got plenty of used standard 2" flippers. Happy to pop one in the post if you'd like to at least fit the correctly sized flipper till you get the retro embossed one?
 
Is this what your after?
i1286.photobucket.com_albums_a610_kevlarx65_Mobile_20Uploads_20150105_164308_zpsqtzjedlr.jpg
 
Kevlar. That looks the job and is what I am after as the word will read correctly in the upper right position.

Do you have the shoe that it sits in and the screw that unites the three parts ?
 
No I just have that piece, courtesy of the very helpful Jay Walker. He was playing my Medusa and noticed I had 2 left hand flippers on the upper playfield, I hadn't even noticed :oops:. Anyway he gave me a couple and I don't need this one so I'll gladly send it to you if you PM me your address.
 
The shoe/shaft are a bugger to find. Even The Legend (Pinball Mania) didn't have one. PB Resource have them: http://www.pbresource.com/flippers.html but A6888E+ with screw will cost you $6.34 plus all the hoo-hah of ordering from the US from a company that ideally only wants to deal with domestic orders in US dollars, i.e., no foreign cheques, credit/debit cards or PayPal. Best method seems to be stuffing actual real dollars in an envelope!
 
DRD said:
Does anyone have one for sale please. I have just bought a Vector and would like to replace the upper right flipper with the above.

I know these come as left hand and right hand models (so you can read the word "flipper"). Ideally I am after a right hand one with blue letters. But if you have anything that would fit, please let me know

Thanks
Click to expand...
Light blue or dark blue. Ken
 
Ken. Thanks for the response. Between them, Kev, Peter and David are trying to sort me out and are sending me some bits.

I will see how we do, and may come back to you
 
There are a couple of other options;
  • The transparent red 2" flipper used on Embryon and Elektra. Since those games used the same 'linear' flipper unit, these would definitely fit in Vector.
  • The 2" version of the Bally/Stern white flipper, used by Stern on Lightning and Split Second. A 1-piece part, but I'm not sure of the length of shaft.
Both the above would need their specifically-sized rubber bands.
 
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I've been PM'ing with @DRD and have offered to send a 2" white flipper until he can get hold of the unusual shaft/shoe to fit the separate bat. I've also got one of the transparent red 2" flippers too as it was fitted to my Paragon when I got it. It's not in great condition but if anyone needs it for their Embryon or Elektra its theirs for the price of postage!
 
All sorted. Thanks for your help. In the niche world of vector, the games were actually shipped with a 3" top right flipper which is vastly too powerful and indeed broke a drop target on my game. It also leads to balls smacking the glass. Even the flyer shows a 3" flipper up there though. A designer of the game was quoted as saying that the Bally manual was wrong as it listed a 3" whereas he had designed it to take a 2"

The first pic shows the bits supplied by guys on the forum
image.jpg


The second shows the 3" which just looks wrong, and overhangs the ramp

image.jpg
The third shows the mini flipper in place
image.jpg
 
I checked the manual for Vector, and all 4 flipper coils are specified as having a 25-500 primary winding. If you still have concerns about the upper flipper being too powerful, you could try a slightly weaker 25-600 on that flipper.

Also, I've never been entirely clear about the rubber goods to use on these 2" flippers. An old operator I knew always used two 1" rings on each flipper, and told me that the upper one, in its groove, was simply to secure the lower one. The manuals for Vector, Space Invaders and Paragon seem to back this up; the number of 1" rings stated only adds up counting two rings for the 2" flipper(s). But the chart for Medusa doesn't add up right at all - it states Qty. 6, but there are five around the playfield.
 
Ooh, that's strange @Jay Walker. Never seen those little mini-flippers fitted with two bands before. Wonder if it effects the strike as the height of the groove is just about mid-height of the ball.

I've come to always be suspicious of the ring charts in Bally manuals. There are inaccuracies for both PARAGON and GOLD BALL (not checked VECTOR as it had a new ring kit with it from the previous owner). Worst of all there are errors in the Wiring loom schematic for GOLD BALL. If you followed the wiring for the sound card as gospel it would probably go up in a cloud of smoke!
 
Jay Walker said:
I checked the manual for Vector, and all 4 flipper coils are specified as having a 25-500 primary winding. If you still have concerns about the upper flipper being too powerful, you could try a slightly weaker 25-600 on that flipper.
Click to expand...

Very interesting post thank you. Looking at the coil on the troublesome upper right, my game came with 24-570 / 34-3600 up on the top right. So someone might have tried to improve things up here

The other 3 are all 25-500 / 34-4500
 
So, if it should be fitted with a 25-500 then that's 500 turns of 25 gauge. There's a complex calculation for working out the total length of a bobbin winding because the diameter increases as more layers are added, but as a first-order estimate let's say the bobbin diameter is 20mm or about 62mm circumference. Comparing with 570 turns of 24 AWG:

500 turns x 62mm = 31.0m
570 turns x 62mm = 35.3m

25 AWG has a resistance of 0.1060 Ohm/m and 24 AWG wire is 0.0842 Ohm/m (the thicker the wire the lower the resistance per unit length):

31.0m * 0.1060 Ohm/m = 3.286 Ohms
35.3m * 0.0842 Ohm/m = 2.900 Ohms

Running that through Ohms law gives the following current draw for each coil as follows (for 43 VDC):

500 turns of 25 AWG: 13.1 Amps
570 turns of 24 AWG: 14.8 Amps

The exact figures aren't important and I've made some simplifications, but it's the comparison that's important. Basically, although the 25-500 has less turns it has a higher resistance due to the thinner wire which draws less current and therefore less power. The 24-570 is about 14% more powerful. Not a massive increase but coupled with the wrong 3" bat and the close proximity of the X-Y-Z targets on the upper playfield of VECTOR it might just be enough to destroy those drop-targets!
 
So I am now at 4 new coils for this machine, and counting ........

I have read that vector needs to be carefully set up. I have at least had a few games on it in between the refurb !

Mine will be set up right, but she is putting up a fight. I have ordered a leaf spring adj tool to assist in my quest as the old Bally will need more careful set up than my more recent wpc games
 
www.marcospecialties.com__images_products_77_SWK_B_large.JPG


Basically, you insert the metal part in one of the ends, and lightly turn either left or right to bend it so it's close enough to make contact when required.

One of those tools i always mean to get, but never have done yet!
 
I ordered this one from bestofpinball.de for eur 5. "Justage Tool slotted (45 & 90 Angle) easy justage any switch Contacts".

A metal flight shaft from a set of darts is another alternative

image.jpg
 
Ahhh... I see! I just use a pair of very long needle-nose pliers but I can see that this tool could go where other might not reach ;) Nice!
 
I am hoping that it will enable the leaf spring to be bent at the very bottom (where I struggle to get pliers) so that it keeps its contact point square with the second spring
 
so after having vector for 2 weeks now and lots of glass bashing,looks like I need a 2" flipper as well,if anyone has come across another in their spares.pretty please
 
The whole upper playfield on vector is a complete design fook up. So I now can understand this whole 3" v 2" flipper debate. There is a reason for this confusion and I don't know of any other game where similar confusion exists.

The upper playfield is simply too small and fiddly yet has three ramps leading to it and a fourth way in too, from above. Had this game been wide body, it would be a highly collectible classic and people would talk of this game with the same reverence as fathom and centaur. It has so many awesome features, literally more features than any game of the era. 5 saucers, 9 drops (6 with individual solenoid control), 4 flippers, superb nudging outlanes into the saucers, most speech of a game of this era, playfield electronic display, timed speed shot, double back glass, figure of 8 shooter loop, superb art, they even squeezed a pop bumper in. But there just isn't room, it is like putting a v12 in a fiat 500, it just does not fit.

Now I am used to the game, I would say

1 the small flipper looks miles better in place than the big one on the upper field
2 the upperr left flipper is virtually pointless, other than knocking the defenders down, and I don't think you can use it to get on the upper playfield anyway. I don't think this should influence what sized flipper you use in the top
3 you can weaken the upper playfield flipper by using a weaker coil and aggressively adjusting the EOS switch. I did both even with my small flipper
4 I am wondering about putting the full sized flipper back, as the little flipper does virtually bugger all. And the upper playfield does bugger all anyway. So it will be a marginal call. You need to keep the ball in the upper playfield and with the tiny area, 3 exits, pop bumper and little flipper it is hard to display any skill up here

So I think the game will look better with the small one. But play better with the big one. So for me it is a case of try both and make a personal choice which of the bad options is least bad
 
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big thanks to member jay walker for sorting me out a 2" flipper,he's an absolute star:clap:
 
When you are used to the little one. Might you share your thoughts on the little versus big debate on the upper flipper
 
I generally agree with @DRD's analysis that VECTOR almost has too many features. I think this was a last ditch attempt by Bally to make an awesome pinball by throwing everything they had from the parts bin at it but without creating any new or special mechanisms to keep down costs. It's packed with kickers, saucers, drops, flippers, ramps and gates, with only the single pop bumper being the odd one out. It's got speech, a speedometer ramp shot, playfield mounted display and double backglass with auxiliary lamp driver for SPACE INVADER style flashing. But I think they over did it. It would make an awesome widebody! The upper flippers are both a bit useless. The upper playfield is cramped and there is no obvious approach to take to getting up there and staying up there. Multiball is hard to get and nothing particularly special happens when you do eventually get it.

So near and yet so so far...

But VECTOR was released just a month after Bally Midway released Ms. Pac-Man of which they eventually released over 115,000 units. All this against a backdrop of Namco making 300,000 units of Pac-Man. Makes 20,000 units of TAF look small and 3,500 units of VECTOR pathetic. I can see now why games like GOLD BALL were made in 1983 (stripped down and so simple) and why pinball nearly died out completely.
 
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