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Anyone concerned about playfield issues JJP and Stern? Or seen them?

Both Mirco and CPR still have new playfields and I really want to install a minty one. The dilemma is which way to go. I have contact CPR first to see if they are prepared to do anything about this playfield.
 
Having been a fibreglasser, I can relate to the sinking feeling you get when you realise you haven't put enough hardner in the mix..
I had to literally peel the inside of a transit van back off once. 😒
 
Neil McRae said:
I meant to post 7 days but 6 is true also. its a fact based on visiting a company and seeing this chemical process take shape (although this was for passenger airliners...) and asking alot of questions. if it hasn't cured in a couple of days then who ever mixed it didn't put enough hardener in.
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Looks like a common mistake which is pretty strange.
You would have thought that companies that do this constantly would be fault free.
 
Presumably Jjp and Stern have already produced games that have not yet sold but will have this issue. Sounds like time won't cure them, whenever the box is opened it will bunch and pool right out of the box. Can't see them all being recalled or written off, but carrying on selling them when knowing they are flawed will perpetuate the brand damage. Wonder whether they'll sell them discounted on the proviso you know what you're getting.
 
Vimtoman said:
Looks like a common mistake which is pretty strange.
You would have thought that companies that do this constantly would be fault free.
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that's why I think something changed in the ingredients that they use that caught them off guard (attest for stern). For JJP they simply have no excuse in my view.
 
I'd say it's more to do with the cure time between coats. CPR say it takes 30 days to fully cure. Jjp playfields are made by a small company and there's no way they have the capacity to clear these and let them cure. Dimpling has nothing to do with the clear rather the softwood.
 
Sven Normansson said:
I'd say it's more to do with the cure time between coats. CPR say it takes 30 days to fully cure. Jjp playfields are made by a small company and there's no way they have the capacity to clear these and let them cure. Dimpling has nothing to do with the clear rather the softwood.
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I know it’s not Pins but In the automotive industry the production line would come to a grinding halt if they had to wait that long for clear coat to cure. Surely it’s got to be something else.....
I know that when paint and clear is applied to vehicles in factory the metal is electrically charged and a thin layer of paint and clear coat is evenly applied....job done.
Have you ever had a vehicle that’s been into a body shop for a professional respray?
The paint and clear coat go on much, much more thicker. They cannot attain the same thin coating at factory by the production process used.
So.....when you get a stone chip, that’s why you get a bigger chip of paint and clear come off.
It’s all to do with the adhesion process.
Thinner = less chipping vs thicker more chipping.
Maybe this thicker clear has came back to bite everyone on the ass 😬
 
I have only read the comments on this thread but looking at those photos I would guess that it was a case of populating the playfield too early in a rush to get them off the line, at least that is what it looks like to me, it will be interesting to hear the true explanation once the dust settles
 
Sako-TRG said:
I know it’s not Pins but In the automotive industry the production line would come to a grinding halt if they had to wait that long for clear coat to cure. Surely it’s got to be something else.....
I know that when paint and clear is applied to vehicles in factory the metal is electrically charged and a thin layer of paint and clear coat is evenly applied....job done.
Have you ever had a vehicle that’s been into a body shop for a professional respray?
The paint and clear coat go on much, much more thicker. They cannot attain the same thin coating at factory by the production process used.
So.....when you get a stone chip, that’s why you get a bigger chip of paint and clear come off.
It’s all to do with the adhesion process.
Thinner = less chipping vs thicker more chipping.
Maybe this thicker clear has came back to bite everyone on the ass 😬
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in the automotive industry they do wait but not days... Ive been to this plant in Munich, the humans have been added to this video for the most part as the plant is super automated...

The thickness has no bearing on the bonding. Its all In the mix and the application.

 
Neil McRae said:
in the automotive industry they do wait but not days... Ive been to this plant in Munich, the humans have been added to this video for the most part as the plant is super automated...

The thickness has no bearing on the bonding. Its all In the mix and the application.

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Nice vid 👍 those robots are freaky...
I still think thickness is a factor though.
Slab avalanche........
 
Sako-TRG said:
I know it’s not Pins but In the automotive industry the production line would come to a grinding halt if they had to wait that long for clear coat to cure. Surely it’s got to be something else.....
I know that when paint and clear is applied to vehicles in factory the metal is electrically charged and a thin layer of paint and clear coat is evenly applied....job done.
Have you ever had a vehicle that’s been into a body shop for a professional respray?
The paint and clear coat go on much, much more thicker. They cannot attain the same thin coating at factory by the production process used.
So.....when you get a stone chip, that’s why you get a bigger chip of paint and clear come off.
It’s all to do with the adhesion process.
Thinner = less chipping vs thicker more chipping.
Maybe this thicker clear has came back to bite everyone on the ass [emoji51]
Click to expand...

They also get baked well not to the extent of powder coating. That’s one thing I don’t think they do with play fields.
 
Been following the thread on Pinside - crazy how some distributors over there are trying to brush it off. It’s put me off a JP until they’ve sorted it.
 
I sincerely hope they get to the bottom of this.
Feel sorry for the new owner parting with their hard earned 💰 ending up with a chipped play-field which will most certainly get worse over time.
A part of me also feels sorry for JJP. They really need Wonka to do well.
It would be disastrous for them to be let down by a play-field manufacturing process. I’m not sure how wide spread a problem this is, apparently it’s hit and miss as to whether you get a bad one.
I know Stern, JJP, CGC, Spooky etc.... all monitor Pinside and ignore much of the moaners. I think there’s some things that are widely regarded acceptable and can be explained, issues such as dimpling for example.
Play-field de-lamination, flaking, clear pooling etc....is a different beast and just cannot be brushed under the rug.
Bigger coys like Stern can perhaps afford to do the right thing and fulfil warranty claims by shipping populated play-fields when things go badly wrong but JJPs answer is to get the customer to buy a discounted unpopulated playfield? This leans towards financial issues......
I guess that means the local distributor/retailer has to pick up the cost of re-populating the playfield via the warranty?
I would imagine it’s not a straight forward job for a novice.
As others have stated, can’t believe the lack of diligence after the well known POTC issues.
Hope there’s a happy ending and JJP pick up the pieces for the sake of Pinball.
 
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JJP are done if they don’t put customers right in my view.

Stern will put customers right I’m sure of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Neil McRae said:
in the automotive industry they do wait but not days... Ive been to this plant in Munich, the humans have been added to this video for the most part as the plant is super automated...

The thickness has no bearing on the bonding. Its all In the mix and the application.

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yeah, nice, but when do they add the cassette player, mmm?
 
Definitely looks like they've not been cured properly then added the playfield pieces to it way before they should have.
 
You'd think Stern would have enough experience for play field issues like this to not be a thing
 
Is this more common on machines in the states where manufacture to someones door is a lot quicker than here. I'd guess by the time a pin reaches uk its spent a month on it's travels which has helped with the playfield hardening process..
 
Kenny Taylor said:
Is this more common on machines in the states where manufacture to someones door is a lot quicker than here. I'd guess by the time a pin reaches uk its spent a month on it's travels which has helped with the playfield hardening process..
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That won’t repair damage from posts being done up before it’s fully cured
 
if it hasn't cured in a couple of days, it ain't going to cure effectively enough... There was some of that talk going on during the ghosting debacle but games in Europe were affected; the crazy long post on pinside was a guy in Europe on it.

Neil.
 
stumblor said:
Was just reading up about that on pinside. Was this the issue that you had that lead to your playfield replacement?

Taking a look at..
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-le-w-ghosting

This looks incredibly similar to @Andypc 's TOTAN CPR gold playfield doesn't it?
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Yes that's right - that's ghosting - I setup a rig to take photos of my play field every night and flag differences, it went from perfect to this in one night, with no major environment or other changes, intact I hadn't played the game in a while at this point. I didn't wait for it to get worse because there was enough evidence of it getting worse on pinside. The first batch of Pro's that hit the UK never suffered from it, it was the LE's and Premiums where it started and then the second batch of pros I think.

Neil.

60BC344C-8172-42BB-99DE-CC9FAE0003C1.JPG
 
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