180/200 gram vinyl..... is it 'that' good? And other discussions about vinyl records....

[Pick Holder]

Hello all - just want to extend the posts on here about people's purchases of vinyl records.

I have collected records since the 80s, well - that is a lie - I sold most of it and got it all on CD and spent the last 15 years buying it all back.

DISCUSSION 1:

Now - I am a sucker for these box sets. I collected all the Rush and Led Zeppelin represses and deluxe box sets etc.

Having sat there with my original albums, from 70s/80s - I think the original pressings indeed sound better.

90's original pressings are not that good, but as a rule now. I would buy a used original copy of an album rather than a repress.

A few audiophiles agree and disagree but I think modern vinyl is not as good as the old stuff. Let's compare a diamond plate playfield to a mirco.... I would rather have a diamond plate PF.

DISCUSSION 2:

Is collecting vinyl still a thrill? Literally I can within reason go onto Discoggs or eBay and purchase any record I want funds permitting. This takes a lot of fun out of collecting. Finding that original record that is worth £40 that someone has up for £2.50 just does not happen. Everyone knows what they have now.

In the past I have found on Market stalls some amazing finds and then sold them on to 'Reddingtons Rare Records' in Birmingham 30 minutes later for a profit......

Any other discussions - or comments - fire away !

 

[johnwhitfield]

Sold all my vinyl about 10 years ago

Occasionally regret it so now re buying bits and pieces.

There’s no challenge tracking down most stuff now. I don’t feel a need to go into record shops to browse which used to be a constant when I was a lot younger.

Recently picked up a Danielle Dax LP and I’d forgotten how **** it was to buy something only to then find it jumps/skips.

Modern vinyl is ok. 70s was better and made to last. The low point was in the late 80s when they used stuff called “dynoflex”. You’d take a lp out and it would literally bend if you held it up.

I released a lot of albums on vinyl throughout the 90s/early 2000s. It’s a right pain in the **** to deal with.

Low point was releasing “the best of Tracey Ulman” on vinyl in 2001. Sold a thousand or so in Japan and literally less than 10 to the rest of the world.

 

[M4carp]

Like you I started in the 80’s, 12” singles mainly with many being imports.

I have records from 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 2000’s, 2010’s on to new last month.

Some old stuff can sound crap too, I have a box set only pressed recently and sounds very good. All depends on how they have done it.

Don’t have a clue when I’m in the record shop what most of the songs are as it’s house, techno, drum and bass etc. Found some great tunes in a local record shop the other week so was a nice surprise, not interested in making any money as just for pleasure. If I get a gem for cheap it’s a bonusJust ordered 10x12” singles from eBay as a surprise but decent lot, see how that goes

Picked up a 12” single from the local record shop for £6 and go for about £30 usually so it can be done.

Then you have the debate about what set up you have to play them on

Cleaned some today and that makes a big difference to some records!

 

[Pooman2084]

Analogue recordings from the 50s-90s sound waaaay better than modern remasters on my setup.

The newer ones are cleaner and perhaps more precise but the older ones have a warmth and presence that is just missing for me on the latest remasters.

OG mono Beatles stuff is just amazing sounding.

Also IMHO the weight of the vinyl makes **** all difference. I have some 70s albums that were struck during the oil crisis that are incredibly thin but they sound really really good.

I did take a fair few reissues and remasters back to the record shop before I kind of gave up on them. I’m trying to remember which ones were the worst, but MJ’s Off the Wall was almost unlistenable.

 

[DAFlippers]

Many modern releases are on coloured vinyl but I find good old black far better to see the tracks. You can't beat a porky prime cut.

David

 

[neil1637]

Any answer here is going to be contentious as everyone's ears are different.

I have both an old vintage set up and a modern set up. Both are quality rigs.

Personally I like the sound of the old. My point transfers to the vinyl.

Bitd, 180 weight was a fairly common thing, with decent pressing houses anyway, then as prices of materials went up, most pressings became lighter.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. Older Japanese pressings are sought after as the quality is generally considered better, so you will pay more for these.

Some folk will say that black vinyl sounds better than coloured vinyl? Meh... Really?

So, where the pressing is quality, I'll always choose old/original and play on vintage deck. But if I can't get that and there is a modem copy then that's fine too.

Chasing the bargains ..... most do know what they have as much as they enter/search'know the value of 'that' LP, but there are many that don't know the value of the pressing they have and these are the ones that still give me the buzz when you find them.

 

[AlanJ]

Still some bargains to be had buying up genuine collections.

 

[neil1637]

Still some bargains to be had buying up genuine collections.

Yeah, I've bought a load of tat, to net a couple of discs.

I have a local vinyl shop who I can easily offload the unwanteds to.

 

[Spandangler]

I guess it also depends on your poison so to speak.

I collect mainly 90’s early 00’s house, trance and any of the million sub genres thereof. 12” singles. Most record shops don’t have a clue about it and stick it up for £2 a record. I can still sniff out a bargain most times I go digging.
I totally get that if you’re into the rock genre the chances of digging that gem are incredibly slim.

And because I mix with my records I man handle them, back cue them put my fingers all over them. Most of them sound like **** anyway .

 

[johnwhitfield]

You can't beat a porky prime cut.

Now that’s a phrase that will divide people into two groups. How many people under 50 would still know what it means

I only ever went there a few times due to the cost. There was an unwritten rule that you had to book a morning slot for mastering as George started drinking at lunch time and the quality then went right out of the window.

I’ve got strong memories of being a teenager and reading all the writing on the run off grooves.

 

[Pick Holder]

Yes - I am a sad git who used to read the messages around the matrix numbers.....

Also as a rule back in the day I would not of purchased a coloured vinyl over black. These days I think it sounds all the same, even picture discs I am okay with.

I am not an audiophile. I have a tube stereo amp (18 watts per channel) that was chinese and I have rebuilt it with better transformers. My speakers are 1968 wharedales which are 3 way with a 12 inch driver - picked them up for £20 on ebay. Now they want ten times..... I have a nice old B&O turntable 8002. Can not afford a 4002.

Oh and I run it all with a BBE Sonic Maximizer. I used to use these at the radio station I used to present on as well as in the music industry for many years. Most of you would not know what one is but you would of heard one!

My speakers are in need of changing. They are old and tired like me. But try finding decent bass end from modern speakers. I do not want to go down the sub route.

 

[M4carp]

I guess it also depends on your poison so to speak.

I collect mainly 90’s early 00’s house, trance and any of the million sub genres thereof. 12” singles. Most record shops don’t have a clue about it and stick it up for £2 a record. I can still sniff out a bargain most times I go digging.
I totally get that if you’re into the rock genre the chances of digging that gem are incredibly slim.

And because I mix with my records I man handle them, back cue them put my fingers all over them. Most of them sound like **** anyway .

What? You don’t use surgical gloves while mixing

 

[dave]

But try finding decent bass end from modern speakers. I do not want to go down the sub route.

Don't get loudspeakers, get monitors like Mackie HR824's they are more than low enough.

Vinyl won't sound that great though, good enough of course but all that noise that comes with playing vinyl will be more pronounced.

Quite a lot of the time I have to low cut, sometimes late at night or even during the day because I like to remove some of the low end rumble you don't hear.

 

[HomerRamone]

I keep toying with buying a new turntable.. mine is playing just fine - and it sounds fine (its a Project debut 2 [I think]) which is highly rated I gather..
but having to lift the deck off to change the speed irritates me - probably more than it should

 

[M4carp]

I keep toying with buying a new turntable.. mine is playing just fine - and it sounds fine (its a Project debut 2 [I think]) which is highly rated I gather..
but having to lift the deck off to change the speed irritates me - probably more than it should

I have a Rega Planar 3 (1981) that was given to me in the 90’s, I reconditioned it recently and works/sounds great but taking the glass platter off to move the belt to change speed annoyed me too as I play 12” singles 33/45 rpm. I treated myself to some old Technics decks and pushing the 33 or 45 button feels good

 

[HomerRamone]

ive never understoon super high end hifi - you know these £1500 amps - sound amazing.. cost a fortune .. and have buttons that look like they are from a box of cornflakes. I get that the money goes into the sound not the looks - but cmon.. spend and extra £10 and make it look a little better

 

[neil1637]

I keep toying with buying a new turntable.. mine is playing just fine - and it sounds fine (its a Project debut 2 [I think]) which is highly rated I gather..
but having to lift the deck off to change the speed irritates me - probably more than it should

The project decks are good. I use one of their JukeboxE decks in the living room as they are very wife friendly with the pre-amp and power amp all built into the deck itself. So minimal surface area, minimal wires etc.

You can change the belt drive from above the platter so much easier. Tonearm and cartridge are OK.

As a budget, pkug and play modern deck, if it fits your needs then all good.

 

[M4carp]

ive never understoon super high end hifi - you know these £1500 amps - sound amazing.. cost a fortune .. and have buttons that look like they are from a box of cornflakes. I get that the money goes into the sound not the looks - but cmon.. spend and extra £10 and make it look a little better

Yep, I love the look of the old hi fi amps
Don’t make them like that anymore.

 

[dave]

Any answer here is going to be contentious as everyone's ears are different.

I have both an old vintage set up and a modern set up. Both are quality rigs.

Personally I like the sound of the old. My point transfers to the vinyl.

If you're being honest vinyl actually sounds like ass with it's noise, pops, clicks, dirt etc. It's quirky and collectable but no way is it the best audio possible, you prefer a layer of noise on top of your tracks, I don't.

Test presses / dubplates were heavier but didn't last as long.

 

[DAFlippers]

Yep, I love the look of the old hi fi amps
Don’t make them like that anymore.

View attachment 265074

Receivers have way too many buttons and are overly complex in my opinion. I have a few Quad 33/405 setups, easy to work on, great sound and simple controls. Quad have recently produced modern versions of the 33 and 303 but they are really expensive and complex. I also have 303 and 22/II as I like classic Quad.

David

 

[DAFlippers]

If you're being honest vinyl actually sounds like ass with it's noise, pops, clicks, dirt etc. It's quirky and collectable but no way is it the best audio possible, you prefer a layer of noise on top of your tracks, I don't.

Test presses / dubplates were heavier but didn't last as long.

Test presses were acetate but not now, quality control on dubplates was minimal to say the least.

David

 

[M4carp]

Receivers have way too many buttons and are overly complex in my opinion. I have a few Quad 33/405 setups, easy to work on, great sound and simple controls. Quad have recently produced modern versions of the 33 and 303 but they are really expensive and complex. I also have 303 and 22/II as I like classic Quad.

David

I have only used power amps etc in racks with sound systems I have owned, later had nice active PA systems for simplicity but I have always had the busy receivers etc for my living area/home cinema home set up.
Last receiver/amp I bought new was an Arcam Solo Neo, sleek looking thing that sounds pretty good. Still use it alongside an old beefy Sony cinema receiver but I use an active 15” sub as well and it all sounds really good.
Never had any issues with any of my receivers, they just never give up.

That Quad stuff does look good though I used to have Matrix power amps, designed and made in England by a guy called Andy. I had a problem with one of my amps so sent him a message as I had a gig (mother-in-laws 60th) he told me to meet him at his little factory on the way to the gig, he bench tested it in front of me and said don’t worry I will fix it but take this amp for your gig and come back after for your repaired amp. Very simple design and unusual to go wrong as he didn’t believe me and they were old amps Was a weird issue and that amp was only used for the tops/high end.

 

[DAFlippers]

The old Quad stuff is easy to fix as they are so well built. There is a 33/405 setup on eBay now (not me) for 230 - powers up but obviously not tested.

David

 

[M4carp]

The old Quad stuff is easy to fix as they are so well built. There is a 33/405 setup on eBay now (not me) for 230 - powers up but obviously not tested.

David

Had a look out of curiosity and also saw a board for the 405-2, that reminds me of a 125w amp pcb kits I bought from RTVC in the 80’s and that was bomb proof. I mounted the 2n3055’s I think it was on individual big finned aluminium heatsinks, so yes very easy to fix Was in school then

 

[Pooman2084]

If you're being honest vinyl actually sounds like ass with it's noise, pops, clicks, dirt etc. It's quirky and collectable but no way is it the best audio possible, you prefer a layer of noise on top of your tracks, I don't.

Test presses / dubplates were heavier but didn't last as long.

Not in my experience. With a good well setup system vinyl can give some astonishingly good reproduction. You need to put some work in to get there mind, not all makes work well together.

I was never a believer in vinyl until I heard a well calibrated setup.

 

[neil1637]

Not in my experience. With a good well setup system vinyl can give some astonishingly good reproduction. You need to put some work in to get there mind, not all makes work well together.

I was never a believer in vinyl until I heard a well calibrated setup.

Yep, have to agree. Not getting into an argument over what is better than whatever else, though.

I'm no audiophile, the whole vinyl experience is far more than that for me, the hunt, the artwork, the physical interaction with the media, etc.

Plus I really like just watching the needle bob around in the groove, whilst listening.

Smart speakers and streaming services are great too from a convenience point of view.

 

[HomerRamone]

Someone did once explain to me why CD can sound as good as vinyl.
told as he started doing so he was wasting his time.
maybe technically it can - but this doesn't interest me..
by the same token this guitar3here maybe technically be a better guitarist that this other one.
more important to me is which I prefer to listen to. and I prefer to listen to vinyl.

 

[dave]

Test presses were acetate but not now, quality control on dubplates was minimal to say the least.

David

Yeah good point and only made to run a few times and not a good comparison to heavier vinyl.

Yep, have to agree. Not getting into an argument over what is better than whatever else, though.

I'm no audiophile, the whole vinyl experience is far more than that for me, the hunt, the artwork, the physical interaction with the media, etc.

Plus I really like just watching the needle bob around in the groove, whilst listening.

Smart speakers and streaming services are great too from a convenience point of view.

Yeah there is nothing like a physical item that you own and have in the hand with the artwork and that's pretty much a dying breed when it comes to your games now.

I had hundreds for years and all gone now thankfully but I do have a box which weighs a tonne on its own which is already getting on my nerves having to keep moving them out of the way.

It's a bulk fest when you have hundreds of them, it's easily done, glad I'm well out of it and moved on with the times.

A lot of my collection is vinyl ripped, and zero I can do about that, it's not like I won't use those ever again. I don't use streaming services, modern comes from Bandcamp as wav direct to label / artist.

 

[dave]

Not in my experience. With a good well setup system vinyl can give some astonishingly good reproduction. You need to put some work in to get there mind, not all makes work well together.

I was never a believer in vinyl until I heard a well calibrated setup.

Unless needle tech has improved since I used them that surface noise will always be there. I used to go into my rips and draw anything nasty like clicking and popping out of the waveform because from a DJ perspective it's going to ruin my recording.

 

[johnwhitfield]

John Peel summed it up when people talked about noise on vinyl. His reply was along the lines of “life also has background static”. I personally prefer cleaner sound but it’s not the same experience.

Most of what I listen to is streamed as it’s simply so much easier. However I don’t feel the same connection with it as putting on a LP and getting lost in the liner notes etc.

I’ve been finding more and more that I don't even know the names of a lot of songs as it will just be playing from a stream and I’ll know the artist/album but not the individual track names.