I saw this Aussie fellas older video back along but man, this is full on that's not a knife that's a knife stuff. I love modern Stern's but it's hard to disagree with a lot of what he says.
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Why NOT to buy a Stern pinball (vid)
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Wow! he really doesn't like Spike/Spike 2? The comment Stern pinballs are "Low Quality, disposable, domestic toys" I think gets his point across, as I'm at the cheaper end of the scale, are they that bad? as I'm only just putting my toe in the water with SAM games and so far have not been put off.
He is correct on a lot of points, however at Tilt, in the last 2 years we have not had node board issues....
He's the Daily Mail of Pinball. He makes some valid points, but those heavy chips on both of his shoulders really aren't helpful or objective. We're not in the 90's anymore.
Maiden has had some build quality issues, but otherwise a brilliant and immersive game. And I still want a Jurassic Park. But i can't afford one.
Maiden has had some build quality issues, but otherwise a brilliant and immersive game. And I still want a Jurassic Park. But i can't afford one.
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Yeah I do think he's a little bit alarmist to say the least but there's some fair points in there too
Unfortunately there has been imo to many reports of these node boards failing it's a bit like Russian roulette buying these 2nd hand at the moment until they find a proper fix for them , you just do not know when they are going to fail and when they do that's a big bill as it's a new board every time . Love to buy another new machine , but I would like to keep it longer than a couple of months 
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Well. I think it's probably a bit over blown and Phil gives you a 2 year warranty so it's possibly not that big a reason to not buy these games. They shoot too well to disregard imo
Totally agree with the ‘they shoot too well’ comment. There’s some stunning Spike games (I own 3), they get played daily - if a node board fails so be it, I’ll bite the bullet. They are expensive machines, splashing out on a node board isn’t the end of the world for me at all (that said I hope I don’t have to)
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Phil goes over above board with his warranty ,not disputing that at all . I like to keep my games for a number of years , bought Twd and ST pro probably 3- 4 years ago had have no issues with them , can that be said with a spike machine compared with a Sam machine ?
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I owned a Star Trek Pro for only a short time. I had to send the board away twice for repair. So yeah I guess it can depend
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Fair point !!
This videos been circulating for quite some time.
It was one of the 1st I viewed. Didn’t Gomez do one of his sarcastically combating this one?
Theres no doubt from a manufacturing and support perspective the Spike system is much easier for Stern.
Node boards have been failing more than everyone would like. The two year warranty is great on NIB but I don’t heavily play my pins so sods law, with low plays my boards will fail out of warranty without ROI.
Lucky we have some experts on the forum who can do board repairs.
I’m glad Spike II is around though because the mono sound on SAM is poor.
The DMD vs LCD doesn’t bother me much but know the the Spike has higher processing power for graphics, sound etc....
It was one of the 1st I viewed. Didn’t Gomez do one of his sarcastically combating this one?
Theres no doubt from a manufacturing and support perspective the Spike system is much easier for Stern.
Node boards have been failing more than everyone would like. The two year warranty is great on NIB but I don’t heavily play my pins so sods law, with low plays my boards will fail out of warranty without ROI.
Lucky we have some experts on the forum who can do board repairs.
I’m glad Spike II is around though because the mono sound on SAM is poor.
The DMD vs LCD doesn’t bother me much but know the the Spike has higher processing power for graphics, sound etc....
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No Sako this isn't that video. It's an updated one in response to Gomez
Great vid .
I was doing fine with this until he pulled the laptop out to compare against the cost of a CPU node board.
Stern are robbing bast4rds........ I’m out
I was doing fine with this until he pulled the laptop out to compare against the cost of a CPU node board.
Stern are robbing bast4rds........ I’m out
He mentioned Home Pin.
I was kinda thinking, Is this Stern dipping their toe, seeing how those MDF home toys last in the wild? Maybe in future, all pins will be made that way
to cut production costs.
I was kinda thinking, Is this Stern dipping their toe, seeing how those MDF home toys last in the wild? Maybe in future, all pins will be made that way
to cut production costs.
Playing node board roulette will be acceptable to some, unacceptable to others.
When you buy a complex machine you anticipate a number of costs - power, routine maintenance, insurance, depreciation, random failures .....
You can spend £1k (pre speech SS) to £5k (top end WPC) to buy well maintained 70s, 80s, 90s machines and it is extremely unlikely that you will ever get hit with a big bill. If a board fails, it can generally be repaired. Biggest bill likely to be a DMD failure/ ramp/ clockwork motor. Even in a worst case scenario, it is almost inconceivable that a major cost replacement would ever need to be repeated (2x ramps, 2x DMD ..)
But with a SAM which has innumerate surface mounted boards, no-one will repair the main board (my experience with WPT, where a new one would have been £500), even the smaller boards like optos are a nightmare to repair. Spike takes it to a whole new level and you end up playing node board roulette.
Cars are just the same. Modern cars cost far more to maintain than 80s and 90s ones did then or even now. Like modern Sterns, they also filled with fragile modules and electronics that are irreparable and very expensive to replace.
When you buy a complex machine you anticipate a number of costs - power, routine maintenance, insurance, depreciation, random failures .....
You can spend £1k (pre speech SS) to £5k (top end WPC) to buy well maintained 70s, 80s, 90s machines and it is extremely unlikely that you will ever get hit with a big bill. If a board fails, it can generally be repaired. Biggest bill likely to be a DMD failure/ ramp/ clockwork motor. Even in a worst case scenario, it is almost inconceivable that a major cost replacement would ever need to be repeated (2x ramps, 2x DMD ..)
But with a SAM which has innumerate surface mounted boards, no-one will repair the main board (my experience with WPT, where a new one would have been £500), even the smaller boards like optos are a nightmare to repair. Spike takes it to a whole new level and you end up playing node board roulette.
Cars are just the same. Modern cars cost far more to maintain than 80s and 90s ones did then or even now. Like modern Sterns, they also filled with fragile modules and electronics that are irreparable and very expensive to replace.
If they just made the cct diagrams available for the node boards it would be more helpful....
I’m a novice, but there’s something I’ve noticed on SAM and Spike.
The connectors are a bit ropey. I’ve mentioned before, I’ve had stuff fail but I pull the connectors then reseat then the issue goes away. The guy in the above vid mentions this.
I don’t have such issues in IT as the copper to copper contact is solid either being Kroned, crimped, gel connector, punched etc......
When I made copper to copper connections running Ethernet on trains when fitting cellular WiFi due to the vibrations we used specialist M12 anti vibration connectors.
There’s loads of harsh vibrations going on in a pin??
I’ve seen this with the connections going to the trough Optos.
The connectors are a bit ropey. I’ve mentioned before, I’ve had stuff fail but I pull the connectors then reseat then the issue goes away. The guy in the above vid mentions this.
I don’t have such issues in IT as the copper to copper contact is solid either being Kroned, crimped, gel connector, punched etc......
When I made copper to copper connections running Ethernet on trains when fitting cellular WiFi due to the vibrations we used specialist M12 anti vibration connectors.
There’s loads of harsh vibrations going on in a pin??
I’ve seen this with the connections going to the trough Optos.
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I’ve owned 2 Stern Spike 2 games and both of them have had Node Board failures, these are incredibly expensive to replace.
I was kind of lucky on my IMDN where I only had to replace the cabinet node which I managed to get from Germany for £130. Electrocoin wanted £300 plus vat for the same part
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The main board on DP was another story, over a grand for a replacement, or slightly cheaper to swap the faulty board over with Electrocoin.
And no they weren’t under warranty unfortunately, so anyone thinking about buying a near new Spike 2 game without a warranty, I would suggest pay the extra and get it from Phil with the 2 year warranty.
It has put me right off buying anymore Spike 2 games for a while.
I was kind of lucky on my IMDN where I only had to replace the cabinet node which I managed to get from Germany for £130. Electrocoin wanted £300 plus vat for the same part
. The main board on DP was another story, over a grand for a replacement, or slightly cheaper to swap the faulty board over with Electrocoin.
And no they weren’t under warranty unfortunately, so anyone thinking about buying a near new Spike 2 game without a warranty, I would suggest pay the extra and get it from Phil with the 2 year warranty.
It has put me right off buying anymore Spike 2 games for a while.
That sounds like really bad luck - did you buy these NIB or used? Any idea roughly how many games had been played just out of interest?
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And it's only a couple of months since the last node board discussion...
https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/stern-node-fault.47404/
https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/stern-node-fault.47404/
Is there any way failures could also be down to mains power spikes etc?
Seems pretty hit and miss with node problems.
Seems pretty hit and miss with node problems.
Both were bought used, the DP was a Euro import with less than 100 plays when the board died. My IMDN (which I still have) had over 1k plays on it when the cabinet node died.
Another reason to buy uk I am pretty sure if it was sold by pinball heaven he would have looked after you
Watched the vid the guy is a bit of a crackpot but at least he sticks by his words and doesn’t buy spike games
As someone said it was discussed some time ago you can buy node boards for around £200 now and cpu for £500 so it’s not the end of the world and I suspect someone with the no how to repair them would change £150 to fix it
At the end of the day stern are a business and they have to make money yes the cost of the board is much less than what we pay but it’s the same with anything a car engine ecu doesn’t cost 2k to make and is much more massively produced than a pinball node board
You have also got to factor in the costs of design and bringing this to manufacture
As for diagnosis it pretty much does everything for you just swap the board
I think it’s a pretty good system with ample power to run a pinball machine great display and sound quality and expansion ports I would much rather have a spike cpu than a ****ty p roc board
As someone said it was discussed some time ago you can buy node boards for around £200 now and cpu for £500 so it’s not the end of the world and I suspect someone with the no how to repair them would change £150 to fix it
At the end of the day stern are a business and they have to make money yes the cost of the board is much less than what we pay but it’s the same with anything a car engine ecu doesn’t cost 2k to make and is much more massively produced than a pinball node board
You have also got to factor in the costs of design and bringing this to manufacture
As for diagnosis it pretty much does everything for you just swap the board
I think it’s a pretty good system with ample power to run a pinball machine great display and sound quality and expansion ports I would much rather have a spike cpu than a ****ty p roc board
Yeah it’s a good system. Better and more reliable than other current pinball manufacturers in my experience. Not mentioning any names