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THEME vs GAMEPLAY

Tron, fantastic theme but gameplay is so so for me.
EBD, great game and one of the best classics but shame about the theme for me.

Pushing the boundaries:
Halloween one of the best themes/art, unique gameplay which was a bit iffy as released too early code wise but they have started to turn it around with new coder/code. It’s gone from a bit iffy to good, hopefully it goes to great.
 
For me, 100% Star Wars by Data East. The theme done perfectly, but the game was fun for a while.

The two Bally's I just sold, Beat the Clock and Special Force, theme, so so, but gameplay 100% ace.

See I could get friends and family playing star wars all day, but pinball didn't hook them, they just liked the music and R2D2. Give them a proper game with poor theme, it's just me alone playing

Edit: Time Machine, theme is a grower, music ace, gameplay a little basic. Couldn't get guests off it, very popular.

So what am I saying, I'm a gameplay guy too, but it's not for everyone, and I hate playing alone.
 
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Ashbo said:
For me, 100% Star Wars by Data East.
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This is the best starwars pin out of the 5 attempts.

If you think the scoring is a bit janky try the new chad code which really restores some balance and also adds a couple of features.

The multiball start is brilliant. Complete copy of TAF (Data East's greatest skill - copying WMS - and thank god), and a brilliant chase for newbies and skilled players.

The integration of sound, lights & dmd is perfect as the multiball start tempts you in "shoot the deathstar!" and the whole GI flashes at you in time with the music, with added percussion by that ridiculous backbox relay that only adds to the experience.

Data East had a talent for taking a musical theme, doubling the tempo, and adding a bat**** rhythm to create hype. It really works.

Turned up loud it really is a brilliant pin.
 
AlanJ said:
My view now is it's gameplay 100% over theme. The absolute classics have both.
What are the games that really push the boundaries - i.e. great gameplay but naff theme and then brilliant theme but rubbish gameplay?
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Fish Tales. I have a bunch of pins with sci-fi themes… and a pin about fishing.

AC/DC & Metallica - great pins, know nothing about the bands.

DE Star Wars - great theme, about the worst pin I’ve ever played.

I choose stuff to own 100% on gameplay, but - if I’m in a room with a bunch of pins I don’t know - I will tend to gravitate towards theme.
strobey said:
This is the best starwars pin out of the 5 attempts.
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Well, it’s better than the Revenge-from-Mars-style Phantom Menace pin… But no way is it (objectively) better than Stern Star Wars or Mando 😮

Genuinely, there are very few pins where I’ve drained the third ball on purpose, and DE Star Wars is one of them (it’s entirely possible that the lighting effects made it worse).
 
Congo & Shadow - both pretty poor themes but great games.

I loved the AC/DC theme but seem to be in the minority about the confusing gameplay.

I found Metallica and Attack From Mars to be a good balance between both.
 
VeeMonroe said:
no way is it better than Stern Star Wars or Mando 😮

Genuinely, there are very few pins where I’ve drained the third ball on purpose - and DE Star Wars is one of them.
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I beg to differ.

I wouldn't go as far to say Stern's effort is terrible, but it's lazy and lacks flair.
 
strobey said:
If you think the scoring is a bit janky try the new chad code which really restores some balance and also adds a couple of features.
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I had one - restored with pinsound, colordmd, etc. It looked and sounded amazing, very cinematic. Ran the latest chad code, but still a 1-shot wonder ("shoot the death star!") if playing for points. I move my games on quick but DESW holds the record for shortest stay...
 
strobey said:
I beg to differ.

I wouldn't go as far to say Stern's effort is terrible, but it's lazy and lacks flair.
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Yes, the art (on the non-comic version) is dire, the layout isn’t especially imaginative, and it has almost no toys on the playfield. However, the combination of the actual code for casual onsite play and the layout is incredibly fun - lots of swooping shots, very fast gameplay, and very atmospheric. It does conjure up the feel of flying about the universe fighting tie fighters (if you have a good imagination).

More importantly, it is the opposite of a one-shot pin.
 
VeeMonroe said:
More importantly, it is the opposite of a one-shot pin.
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Not by much Vee! Tie fighter target, deathstar & left ramp. In fact pretty much identical I'd say!

But like i said its not a bad game, just not up there for me :thumb:
 
Shadow. I love the game crap theme.
Demo man. I actually really rate the game.
Indiana jones. Great first film. Utterly boring game.
Whitewater. Can’t say the theme stands out but great game
Roadshow. I’ve come to like the game. What a dud theme though.
 
My 3 stern Star Wars pro not Le amazing theme lots of attributes flows well pretty easy rules with the twist of strategy on game start and ball launch fast and furious does lack toys
Mando I love the theme and has tons of attributes but the game does not excite me and leaves me cold
Stranger things Le amazing theme game play very simple and easy to follow really pulls you in to the game with sounds and lighting
Got premium not everyone cup of tea I love the strategy on this game and theme is good
I would take aiq as my favourite elwin game of them all just over theme love the flow on his games but not a fan of the massive in depth rules
 
strobey said:
Not by much Vee! Tie fighter target, deathstar & left ramp. In fact pretty much identical I'd say!

But like i said its not a bad game, just not up there for me :thumb:
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Not if you start the modes. Like most pinball games, the modes expect you to shoot a variety of shots.

Stern Star Wars reminds me of No Fear and Stern Star Trek - both solid flowy pins without many toys or excessive imagination. I’m happy to see any of those three onsite and am happy to put in money to play.

I totally take that Star Wars DE has great music, but - genuinely - I have rarely failed to enjoy a pin so thoroughly (personal preference, I agree). I mean, it was on free play at Pinfest and I couldn’t even face finishing a free game :(
 
strobey said:
I honestly think you lost 80% of the game by doing that. Not suprised it didn't last long.

You're quite right it's a simple game though.
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Perhaps - I did think it sounded really good - regardless it's still boring shooting the same 1 shot over and over again...
 
I’m a Big Theme fan.
When I first got into the hobby, I bought games like DH, AFM, MM, CC, IJ, LOTR all without playing them. -

Just liked the look of them when looking at pictures and other reviews

Can’t say I was disappointed with any of them..

3 games I have bought and then kind of regretted buying and sold pretty
CONGO
DRACULA
WONKA
GNR (JJP)

Games that I have sold and bought back as missed them..
AFM
CFTBL
DH
BBB

I’m not bothered about super deep code, I like a game I can get quite far on and ones that tell
A story/ reward you with an animation or film clip for making that shot if Im not into the theme then I don’t really buy..

That being said, Godzilla - not a theme I was into, took a punt as Elwin Game & incoming Elvira- not a fan but reviews of the kind of humour I like, and lack of any around, another punt.. - not played one.
 
Dave Bishop said:
I’m a Big Theme fan.
When I first got into the hobby, I bought games like DH, AFM, MM, CC, IJ, LOTR all without playing them. -

Just liked the look of them when looking at pictures and other reviews

Can’t say I was disappointed with any of them..

3 games I have bought and then kind of regretted buying and sold pretty
CONGO
DRACULA
WONKA
GNR (JJP)

Games that I have sold and bought back as missed them..
AFM
CFTBL
DH
BBB

I’m not bothered about super deep code, I like a game I can get quite far on and ones that tell
A story/ reward you with an animation or film clip for making that shot if Im not into the theme then I don’t really buy..

That being said, Godzilla - not a theme I was into, took a punt as Elwin Game & incoming Elvira- not a fan but reviews of the kind of humour I like, and lack of any around, another punt.. - not played one.
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I've bought two pins without playing them first (either in real life or on the Williams app) and neither has stuck... Every other pin I've either played to death in real life before buying, or I've played to death on the Williams app, and they haven't (so far) left after being in the house for a while.

There's only one pin 'in the wild' that I play to death and which we don't own, and that's JP2.
 
Dave Bishop said:
incoming Elvira- not a fan but reviews of the kind of humour I like, and lack of any around, another punt.. - not played one.
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I bought EHOH under exactly the same circumstances a bit over a year ago now and I haven't regretted it. Not sure it's a long term keeper, but it's a great game.
 
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