Question on Pinball software/games

[C&C]

Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong place - I've searched the forum, and cannot find a section dealing with pinball emulations (or even virtual pinball).

Following reading on a recent thread about a number of people who got into pinball by first using Pinball FX3, or Pinball Arcade, and also having a look at Pinball Arcade (I have seasons 1 and 2 on the PS4) with a view to learning the rules for HS2-The Getaway ahead of this weekend (HS2 has been deleted from Pinball Arcade unfortunately), it got me thinking about alternatives which have more tables, and especially more modern tables.

What is the best software/way of running pinball emulations on a home computer?
I have an old, but ok spec Mac Pro (2x3GHz 6 core Xeons, 2xSSD drives, 32Gb RAM, 2Gb graphics card).
Something that runs on OSX (High Sierra) would be good, but I can dual boot to Windows 8.1 from the 2nd SSD drive if needed.

I'm not interested in a physical Vpin as I don't have the space, and if I did, I'd fill it with another real pin.

I don't think I'd spend ages playing, but am mostly interested from the aspect of learning the rulesets of different machines before playing them in physical form, whether that is prior to something like Pinfest with competitions, or to get the most out of future visits to the likes of FlipOut.

I find it difficult to "take in" games via reading the rulesets and watching gameplay videos on YouTube, possibly because the videos I've seen have limited narrative actually explaining the shots being attempted and why.

I've also had a look at VPForums, but it's not obvious what's the best way forward.

Thanks for any tips/suggestions!

 

[SpiderPin]

Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong place - I've searched the forum, and cannot find a section dealing with pinball emulations (or even virtual pinball).

Following reading on a recent thread about a number of people who got into pinball by first using Pinball FX3, or Pinball Arcade, and also having a look at Pinball Arcade (I have seasons 1 and 2 on the PS4) with a view to learning the rules for HS2-The Getaway ahead of this weekend (HS2 has been deleted from Pinball Arcade unfortunately), it got me thinking about alternatives which have more tables, and especially more modern tables.

What is the best software/way of running pinball emulations on a home computer?
I have an old, but ok spec Mac Pro (2x3GHz 6 core Xeons, 2xSSD drives, 32Gb RAM, 2Gb graphics card).
Something that runs on OSX (High Sierra) would be good, but I can dual boot to Windows 8.1 from the 2nd SSD drive if needed.

I'm not interested in a physical Vpin as I don't have the space, and if I did, I'd fill it with another real pin.

I don't think I'd spend ages playing, but am mostly interested from the aspect of learning the rulesets of different machines before playing them in physical form, whether that is prior to something like Pinfest with competitions, or to get the most out of future visits to the likes of FlipOut.

I find it difficult to "take in" games via reading the rulesets and watching gameplay videos on YouTube, possibly because the videos I've seen have limited narrative actually explaining the shots being attempted and why.

I've also had a look at VPForums, but it's not obvious what's the best way forward.

Thanks for any tips/suggestions!

If right now your only concern is HS2 then Pinball FX3 has it in one of the Williams packs. They've got a lot of the classics - Fish Tales, TOTAN, TOM, HS2, Whitewater and Roadshow off the top of my head, probably a good stop-gap until someone more knowledgeable can help!

 

[Jib]

IMO the easiest way to start out is with the baller installer, it’ll sort out all the software you need. You can then choose whether to use pinup popper as the front end or something different or just launch emulations directly from your desktop. I’d also grab the vpx 10.7 beta as some new tables need that. Anyway have a look here, watch the videos and join the discord or Facebook for a link to the download if it looks like something you want to do. Some emulations you’ll be able to set up easily, some will need tweaking or troubleshooting but VPForums will usually have the answer somewhere

 

[Jib]

IMO the easiest way to start out is with the baller installer, it’ll sort out all the software you need. You can then choose whether to use pinup popper as the front end or something different or just launch emulations directly from your desktop. I’d also grab the vpx 10.7 beta as some new tables need that. Anyway have a look here, watch the videos and join the discord or Facebook for a link to the download if it looks like something you want to do. Some emulations you’ll be able to set up easily, some will need tweaking or troubleshooting but VPForums will usually have the answer somewhere

Forgot the link lol https://nailbuster.com/wikipinup/doku.php?id=baller_installer

 

[kev a]

For casual play I'm a big fan of FX3, although they only have B/W Tables.
One nice feature is the cross platform tournaments, so you can have a high score comp with buddies/strangers.
I think all versions are basically the same, but If you get the PC version from steam and request the code from Zen you can enable virtual cab mode, which gives you the ability to rotate the screen for portrait mode.

If your wanting to play a wider range of tables, with the best physics VPX really is the way to go.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Can anyone advise on how to play a wider range of tables with a Mac setup?

I have the Williams pinball app, Stern PBA and Pinball Arcade Plus on iOS, but there's really only the B/W tables and a couple of decent Sterns (Star Trek/GB) on there. It would be nice to try some newer Sterns (without having to cycle to Chief Coffee in Chiswick), especially as they're always occupied at Flip Out.

 

[ChrisH]

The newer Sterns aren't really available anywhere, VPX is the best option for VPinball but the SAM tables are the latest emulated - so you're only going to find the games that are Pre Wreslemaina available.
Some of the later ones have come out but they are not using the real ROMs

Not aware of them being on TPA/FX3 either.

 

[Jay Walker]

Is High Speed II shallow enough that the guide (with diagrams) in the manual might help?. The only thing that players wanted explained at the time was collecting Helicopter Bonus.

 

[Stags6969]

Just out of interest, what spec PC and monitor would I need to be able to play the latest VPX and FX3 games.
I’d want to be able to use the monitor in portrait mode to get the machines to look right.
Virtually anything would run VP9.5, but guess VPX and FX3 are a different story.
Dont want a cab, but fancy dabbling back in the VPin realm on a PC.

 

[Ashbo]

Just out of interest, what spec PC and monitor would I need to be able to play the latest VPX and FX3 games.
I’d want to be able to use the monitor in portrait mode to get the machines to look right.
Virtually anything would run VP9.5, but guess VPX and FX3 are a different story.
Dont want a cab, but fancy dabbling back in the VPin realm on a PC.

Hiya, I bought an i5 off eBay for £70 and a 12 yr old graphics card for £30 and it runs hd in low quality.

This is the finished article in its cab...

https://www.facebook.com/101245192266429/posts/105106251880323

 

[HomerRamone]

I was running vpx on an i5 with a 660 (I think)
Pinball Arcade might be awkward unless you already have it cos I don't think you can get the williams/bally tables anymore. (bicbw)

 

[wilbers]

I was running vpx on an i5 with a 660 (I think)
Pinball Arcade might be awkward unless you already have it cos I don't think you can get the williams/bally tables anymore. (bicbw)

Thats true you can't buy WMS Pinball Arcade tables any longer for PC (and Stern AC/DC), however you can still buy season 1 & 2 discs for PS4 only (seasons 3-7 didn't have a physical release). Its been nearly 3 years since new tables have been added to the Pinball Arcade, but there are still some fun tables left in it and the one thing they were/are best at is the table guides with detailed explanation of the rules. I don't have most of the WMS tables - I discovered them (and shortly after actual pinball tables) the day before they were removed so only got ST:TNG. They have been on major discounts in Steam sales.

As posted above FX3 has some great Williams tables in it, the console versions have mild censorship, and its only the PC version that you can turn that off (and cabinet mode on - helpful if you have 2 monitors even without a Vpin). No more tables released on that either because they are releasing a new version, expected later this year - tables in FX3 won't transfer to that, but FX3 is on Steam and the new version will be on Epic (and consoles) for a year before it releases on Steam.

 

[wilbers]

for extremely full details have a look at https://thepinballchick.com/the-pinball-arcade-complete-buyers-guide-table-rankings/ and the other pages on there. The Arcooda cabinet option is also on there.

 

[VeeMonroe]

for extremely full details have a look at https://thepinballchick.com/the-pinball-arcade-complete-buyers-guide-table-rankings/ and the other pages on there. The Arcooda cabinet option is also on there.

I've been playing this: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/williams-pinball/id1406370101 which has very good implementations of many of the tables Pinball Chick is talking about:

Tales of the Arabian Nights, Medieval Madness, Dr Dude, Party Zone, Fish Tales, AFM, Creature of the Black Lagoon, White Water, Theatre of Magic, Roadshow, Black Rose, Monster Bash, Safecracker, Champion Pub, Junkyard, The Getaway, Hurricane, Cirqus Voltaire, No Good Gofers, Funhouse, Space Station.

It works really nicely on iPad because a large iPad screen is, effectively, a small virtual pinball table.

I've also got the Stern PBA, which is - except for AC/DC - almost identical to Pinball Arcade. I disagree with her ratings on Pinball Arcade because I really like Ghostbusters. That said, there are some really weird physics around the slingshots that I didn't notice on the real-life machine; I assumed there were real-life magnets...

 

[Pick Holder]

Right - as Mac user who also runs windows - I will say that you wont be able to run Pinball fx via steam that well on your system.

You have zero chance of running VPX on a windows partition on a mac. On a PC you need a minimum of a 4gb graphics card for 1080. For higher resolutions 8gb. Visual pinball does not share a lot of things around to different cores so even using VP9 the last version (and playing the desktop games) will still give you ball stutter.

Pinball Arcade and Future pinball are regarded as the worst emulation. You can no longer buy the bally/williams tables for Pinball Arcade.

I love my mac, but it is not a gaming machine.

If I was you grab a nintendo switch (not the lite) and stick it thru your TV and play the pinballfx3 titles.

To make a PC to run VPX (with the current prices of graphics cards etc) will cost you a fortune, but your Mac is not the answer.

iPad with pinball fx3 is another option.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Right - as Mac user who also runs windows - I will say that you wont be able to run Pinball fx via steam that well on your system.

You have zero chance of running VPX on a windows partition on a mac. On a PC you need a minimum of a 4gb graphics card for 1080. For higher resolutions 8gb. Visual pinball does not share a lot of things around to different cores so even using VP9 the last version (and playing the desktop games) will still give you ball stutter.

Pinball Arcade and Future pinball are regarded as the worst emulation. You can no longer buy the bally/williams tables for Pinball Arcade.

I love my mac, but it is not a gaming machine.

If I was you grab a nintendo switch (not the lite) and stick it thru your TV and play the pinballfx3 titles.

To make a PC to run VPX (with the current prices of graphics cards etc) will cost you a fortune, but your Mac is not the answer.

iPad with pinball fx3 is another option.

Yeah, unfortunately I learned that myself last night

I tried to install Parallel with the Windows for ARM Beta, and my entire system slowed to a crawl - even *before* I tried to install VPX.

We've got a Switch with Pinball FX3 (it's the only way I could get my son to give me a turn on our physical Fish Tales) and I've also got the Williams app on my iPad/Phone.

I think I assumed that there *must* be some newer machines emulated somewhere; it seems insane that Stern wouldn't licence their newer machines as virtual tables when so many people on Pinball Info and Pinside are reporting buying vintage pinball machines during lockdown as a direct consequence of playing the virtual version. No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity.

It feels like Stern is throwing money down the drain.

 

[Stags6969]

No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity.

Nice theory, but plenty of people on here, myself included have done just that. In fact I went one better and bought a JJP Hobbit Black Arrow.
Crazy I know, but so is this hobby at times.

 

[Pick Holder]

Yeah, unfortunately I learned that myself last night

I tried to install Parallel with the Windows for ARM Beta, and my entire system slowed to a crawl - even *before* I tried to install VPX.

We've got a Switch with Pinball FX3 (it's the only way I could get my son to give me a turn on our physical Fish Tales) and I've also got the Williams app on my iPad/Phone.

I think I assumed that there *must* be some newer machines emulated somewhere; it seems insane that Stern wouldn't licence their newer machines as virtual tables when so many people on Pinball Info and Pinside are reporting buying vintage pinball machines during lockdown as a direct consequence of playing the virtual version. No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity.

It feels like Stern is throwing money down the drain.

I have been into the vpin thing for years now.... so will try my best to answer stuff.

VPX is totally knocked off and stolen material. It uses images, IP and other assets like eproms and really is totally illegal but the manufacturers arent bothered.

Spike I and Spike II emulation apparently has been done but never talked about in public after the Stern Ghost Busters incident (where they hacked the rom out the pinball arcade version and then posted it everywhere).

Out of respect to the industry the VP guys have never emulated a current format. Plus now modern games run a linux based OS and take up boot time along with 4-6gb of assets. VPX games are nowhere near that size. Maybe 100-150mb on average.

Stern was speaking to the guys behind Pinball FX3 prior to lockdown. SO hopefully fingers crossed we should get more modern games in the future.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Nice theory, but plenty of people on here, myself included have done just that. In fact I went one better and bought a JJP Hobbit Black Arrow.
Crazy I know, but so is this hobby at times.

As your first pinball machine? Without having played it?

 

[C&C]

I have been into the vpin thing for years now.... so will try my best to answer stuff.

VPX is totally knocked off and stolen material. It uses images, IP and other assets like eproms and really is totally illegal but the manufacturers arent bothered.

Spike I and Spike II emulation apparently has been done but never talked about in public after the Stern Ghost Busters incident (where they hacked the rom out the pinball arcade version and then posted it everywhere).

Out of respect to the industry the VP guys have never emulated a current format. Plus now modern games run a linux based OS and take up boot time along with 4-6gb of assets. VPX games are nowhere near that size. Maybe 100-150mb on average.

Stern was speaking to the guys behind Pinball FX3 prior to lockdown. SO hopefully fingers crossed we should get more modern games in the future.

Thanks for your very informative replies. I'll not bother with the Mac then, and as you say, given the price of graphics cards these days, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of building a virtual pinball PC !

Following advice earlier from @SpiderPin, I put FX3 on the PS4 and downloaded quite a few (older) tables including HS2. It's actually pretty good. Here's hoping that Stern do take something forward with FX3 and later tables become available - it really would be a good marketing move for Stern (and potentially other manufacturers) which would no doubt generate (even) more interest in their latest offerings.

 

[Jib]

No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity

Hi, I'm insane

 

[Jib]

There are also very good versions of some of the more modern stuff, they don't use the proper roms like the older emulations but there are good versions of Deadpool, Batman66, Guardians, Munsters, Beatles...may be more I'm forgetting or don't have access to.

 

[C&C]

No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity.

Nice theory, but plenty of people on here, myself included have done just that. In fact I went one better and bought a JJP Hobbit Black Arrow.
Crazy I know, but so is this hobby at times.

As your first pinball machine? Without having played it?

I've effectively done the same - bought TNA through this forum as my first pin, never having played it. Seemed like quite a risk, but there weren't/aren't many around, and my rationale was that if I didn't like it, I could always move it on. Needless to say that it's not going anywhere now.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I've effectively done the same - bought TNA through this forum as my first pin, never having played it. Seemed like quite a risk, but there weren't/aren't many around, and my rationale was that if I didn't like it, I could always move it on. Needless to say that it's not going anywhere now.

That is incredible

We must have played 100 hours of B/W pinball on iPad at the point when we bought Fish Tales. We'd been playing the daily challenges on the Williams app and, thus, had tried a whole bunch of (virtual) machines.

Even then, the fact that we hadn't played any of the machines onsite in physical form (my husband had played Lethal Weapon a few times at service stations growing up) meant we were REALLY nervous about what would happen bringing a 30-year-old pinball table into our house. We were concerned it wouldn't work, would break down immediately, that we couldn't repair it and, having arrived, it wouldn't get played very much. And we were *certainly* not willing to spend >£7-8k on a machine when we'd never had one before.

As such, we ended up with a retail-purchased copy of Fish Tales that was dramatically cheaper than most b/w 90s stuff at retail because it was missing its fish topper and had a bunch of minor niggles. It is in playable condition and has been a huge success (my four year old and one year old are obsessed with it), and we've managed to fix most of the niggles and do some mods, as well.

We're now in the process of buying a second machine, which we *haven't* played in physical form, but I have watched hours of gameplay footage and read reviews, and my older son has watched about 30 minutes of gameplay footage as well. I'm reasonably confident about it, as I'm aware we can swap it out for something we *have* played if it doesn't work out, but I wouldn't have been confident doing that unless I already had the Fish Tales and - also - hadn't played at least 50 other machines in physical form.

I certainly wouldn't have bought TNA unseen! I *LOVE* TNA - it's probably my third favourite pinball of all time. However, I'm aware when I was playing it enthusiastically at Flip Out that it isn't for everyone: @Mike Parkins came over to tell me that he was too old for it: it was too difficult and too fast. In general, I like early SS and some EM machines, but the main warehouse space in Flip Out has remained largely empty the times I've been when it's open to the public, so that's evidently a niche taste.

 

[wilbers]

Thanks for your very informative replies. I'll not bother with the Mac then, and as you say, given the price of graphics cards these days, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of building a virtual pinball PC !

Following advice earlier from @SpiderPin, I put FX3 on the PS4 and downloaded quite a few (older) tables including HS2. It's actually pretty good. Here's hoping that Stern do take something forward with FX3 and later tables become available - it really would be a good marketing move for Stern (and potentially other manufacturers) which would no doubt generate (even) more interest in their latest offerings.

As you have gone down the PS4 route have a look at the list of Williams tables that are in TPA season 1&2 (the non-Williams tables can still be bought digitally, and ignore those done in FX3 as the FX3 version is better) in case any of your favourites are amongst them (its something like £12 to buy each physical disc).

 

[Pick Holder]

There are also very good versions of some of the more modern stuff, they don't use the proper roms like the older emulations but there are good versions of Deadpool, Batman66, Guardians, Munsters, Beatles...may be more I'm forgetting or don't have access to.

Not really. The versions of these games are not that good. They use the 'real playfield' designs but not the video/sound assets of the game - or the rule sets.

Tried them all and then deleted.

 

[Jib]

Not really. The versions of these games are not that good. They use the 'real playfield' designs but not the video/sound assets of the game - or the rule sets.

Tried them all and then deleted.

Aww, guess I haven’t played them or the real ones enough. They looked pretty good on initial download

 

[Stags6969]

As your first pinball machine? Without having played it?

Yep

 

[VeeMonroe]

Yep

I must have played 50+ hours of pinball on the Williams pinball app by the time we bought a Fish Tales…

Even then, we picked a machine that was cheap at retail for various reasons (e.g. missing its topper) to avoid spending too much money when buying a home pinball table might later turn out to be a mistake…

 

[Marvello]

No one is going to make a £6k Stern Pro purchase based on a machine they've never played when they've never had a pinball machine in their house before - it's insanity.

My first Pin was a NIB Walking Dead LE which I'd never played before. It was actually one of my best Pinball deals as I sold it for not much less than I bought it for. It's been down hill ever since though