I've had a couple of people say that you should really paint a cabinet with primer (and sand/paint again) before applying decals. I've also noticed that Matt Adams in his youtube video doesn't do it and it's possible to get the wood very smooth with a 240 grit sand. What is gained by priming first? Is it just a better surface to stick decals to?
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I don't because I like to keep it as close to original as possible. I like to do it the way it was done at the B/W factory.
It's not needed , just sand it down in stages, starting with 120 and working to 360/480.
Have fun.
It's not needed , just sand it down in stages, starting with 120 and working to 360/480.
Have fun.
I’m no expert on decals but i did research it as an option for my pin.
If you’re looking for a super smooth finish then the yellow high build primer is worth trying. It’s like a cross between grey primer and spray on filler that covers scratches and any patterns left from sanding. You build up in thin coats and the finish can be really good.
Personally I’d rather try and retain authenticity as much as possible so a bit of grain coming thru is probably the way forward if that’s your style.
I always wondered how you get a clean edge around the corners and the button recesses where the decals get cut, (and would these catch and peel over time?)
Based on that and the condition of my cabinet being reasonable I’ve filled and sanded any chips, primed, and am about to airbrush the chips and then add some of the bleached colour back using frisket paper (for some reason only the red/orange is noticeably missing and the other colours have been way more stable).
Could be worth considering depending on the look you want and the condition of the cabinet, probably costs the same as decals but you can re use the airbrush, most of the paint and retain more of the original feel, but it won’t be as fancy looking as decals [emoji6]
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If you’re looking for a super smooth finish then the yellow high build primer is worth trying. It’s like a cross between grey primer and spray on filler that covers scratches and any patterns left from sanding. You build up in thin coats and the finish can be really good.
Personally I’d rather try and retain authenticity as much as possible so a bit of grain coming thru is probably the way forward if that’s your style.
I always wondered how you get a clean edge around the corners and the button recesses where the decals get cut, (and would these catch and peel over time?)
Based on that and the condition of my cabinet being reasonable I’ve filled and sanded any chips, primed, and am about to airbrush the chips and then add some of the bleached colour back using frisket paper (for some reason only the red/orange is noticeably missing and the other colours have been way more stable).
Could be worth considering depending on the look you want and the condition of the cabinet, probably costs the same as decals but you can re use the airbrush, most of the paint and retain more of the original feel, but it won’t be as fancy looking as decals [emoji6]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The only trouble with touching up cabs unless you have a really good eye on an exact match it can stick out like a sore thumb. Blacks being one of the works examples because surprisingly black is actually one of the hardest colours to match
Ha, I’m sure I saw a pin for sale in the last week where the seller was saying something like “it’s chipped but hey it’s a black cabinet so easy to touch up” I know what you mean though from doing the inside on mine.
A lot of people think black is black but it's not as simple as that some blacks are made using blue some green etc you get the idea. Same with whites
Wish I new that sooner ,I kept going to 800 grit when I did that Fish Tales ,mine you I did get a nice glass finish !!
Done it both ways. I prefer to go over with filler primer and then wet sand it. With decals often being too thin they show any and every imperfection.
As a matter of interest, what were the first machines to have cabinet decals fitted from the factory?
Williams wise, MB, CC and RFM according to this article: http://www.flippers.be/pinball_cabinets.html
As did my shadow so def not right
That's still a decal it's just screen printed decals
That's just how they were printed before inkjet printers
See I think you have got abit muddled they screen printed directly on earlier cabs, then they started using screen printed decals then they used inkjet printed decals
I'm just going by what it says here and in a few other places: http://www.flippers.be/pinball_cabinets.html
You can peel off the vinyl on these machines so it looks like a decal but the art was actually printed onto the cabinet side.
You can peel off the vinyl on these machines so it looks like a decal but the art was actually printed onto the cabinet side.
See u can't peal off the proper screen printed cabs as there is no vinyl having stripped a screen printed head and a cab with screen printed decals there is a considerable difference
The vinyl on cab then screen printed is still a decal it was just printed in situ prob because they were making multiple games at the time. So easier having multiple cabs precovered then just printed the ones they needed which would make sense. I bet the vinyl was introduced in an attempt to hide flaws and cut down abit of prep
Then we are just arguing about what constitutes a decal. I would not consider screen printing onto a vinyl coated panel a decal.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/decal
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/decal
So you don't class the replacement vinyl decals as decals?
First things first i must point out ive never prepped a cab for decals but was motor trade all my life so done hundreds of cars and applied varies strips and decals, In my humble opinion i would never apply direct to wood as no matter what every imperfection will show through (yep i know some may argue that they were originally to wood) but for me if i was going to all the trouble of stripping and rebuilding for decals i would want as close to a mirror as i could get.
I would do it this ways.
Strip old decasl off using whichever metho works best,ie heating peeling sanding etc,i would not use a razorblade scrapper as you will only dig out the cab leaving more filling to do latter,i would at all cost avoid paint strippper (nitromorse and the like).Once the basic strip was done hit it with some 120 to ease whats left behind off.probly do this by hand or might use a Da
For hand sanding always use a decent block,i would us a 3m rubber block where posible.There will obviously be areas and profiles that you have to use the paper in your hand .
Now the real work starts.i would hit it now by hand with some 180 (note no filler used yet ! ) once i was happy that it was looking reasonable its time for closer inspection.Now fill any dinks and dents with quality wood filler and leave to fully set,being impaitant and sanding to soon will only lead to more work in the long run.
Once filler is dry de-nib just the filled areas with the 180 and re check (do you notice still no paint applied yet !)
Time to get out the fine sand paper 240 or there about,hand sand the whole thing again.And then visually inspect,if your eyes and hands can see or feel any imperfections back to the filler and sanding stage.Once your happy that its all good time to get the 400 wet and dry out (use a good quality paper not cheap as chips ebay stuff) .Small tip hear,use luke warm water and add a squeeze of washing up liquid to the water and change water regularly.Time to add some paint, i would use a devilbiss on a compressor but a hvlp would do the job.(you could also hand paint but hvlp are so cheap its hardly worth it).Apply a coat of primer (i would probly use grey but would depend on colour of decals to be applied).Once dry give it a quick 400 over by hand and apply a second coat of primmer(you could at this stage use one of the many filler primers,depending on how good your previouse prep was).Once dry give it a quick 400 over.Now time for a dust coat of black ( a dust coat is like a speckle coat you are not looking to fully colour the grey primer merely as the title says make it look like you have throw a pile of fine dust at it) .Time for the 600 wet and dry. Now hand sand again ,hopfully you will achieve a nice finish however if after sanding ther are still areas of black dusting this are low areas and will need addressing with very fine filler , i would use a polyester stopper filler. Wet flat this once dry.Stick another dust coat on and then re 400.Once you are happy that there are no high/low spots its time for a top coat.Choose a colour suitable for you decals bearing in mind the decals wont get the extreme edges and possible other areas of the cab.Apply your top coat of choice,leave to dry and hit again with the 600. Now its second coat time,leave the second coat to fully dry,Flat and polish stage time,(my favorite) Time to change to 1200 wet and dry,again warm water and a drop of washing up liquid.At this stage its more polishing rather than flatting.(if you were going to leave the cab just painted i would use 2000 wet and dry and then give it a clearcoat or a go over with g3 compound) Ok the cab should now be spot on, You may think this is over the top (choice is of course yours) but quite honestly its not a lot more work doing it like this than doing it poorly.Now apply your decals to this lovely surface by whatever method the manufacturers recommend for their glue type.Once the decals are on it should look top notch.For me i would then give the decals a coat of clear (asuming they were able to take it without reaction,) and then a buff with g3.
Like i say just how i would approach the task,You could quite happily just rub the cab down,apply filler where required,re rub the cab down and stick the decals on.But i know i would not be happy with the finish as every single imperfection and wood grain mark will show over time,Whilst doing all the above i would also give the inside of the cab similar love and finish of with the appropriate colour,probably a matt/satin finish.
I would do it this ways.
Strip old decasl off using whichever metho works best,ie heating peeling sanding etc,i would not use a razorblade scrapper as you will only dig out the cab leaving more filling to do latter,i would at all cost avoid paint strippper (nitromorse and the like).Once the basic strip was done hit it with some 120 to ease whats left behind off.probly do this by hand or might use a Da
For hand sanding always use a decent block,i would us a 3m rubber block where posible.There will obviously be areas and profiles that you have to use the paper in your hand .
Now the real work starts.i would hit it now by hand with some 180 (note no filler used yet ! ) once i was happy that it was looking reasonable its time for closer inspection.Now fill any dinks and dents with quality wood filler and leave to fully set,being impaitant and sanding to soon will only lead to more work in the long run.
Once filler is dry de-nib just the filled areas with the 180 and re check (do you notice still no paint applied yet !)
Time to get out the fine sand paper 240 or there about,hand sand the whole thing again.And then visually inspect,if your eyes and hands can see or feel any imperfections back to the filler and sanding stage.Once your happy that its all good time to get the 400 wet and dry out (use a good quality paper not cheap as chips ebay stuff) .Small tip hear,use luke warm water and add a squeeze of washing up liquid to the water and change water regularly.Time to add some paint, i would use a devilbiss on a compressor but a hvlp would do the job.(you could also hand paint but hvlp are so cheap its hardly worth it).Apply a coat of primer (i would probly use grey but would depend on colour of decals to be applied).Once dry give it a quick 400 over by hand and apply a second coat of primmer(you could at this stage use one of the many filler primers,depending on how good your previouse prep was).Once dry give it a quick 400 over.Now time for a dust coat of black ( a dust coat is like a speckle coat you are not looking to fully colour the grey primer merely as the title says make it look like you have throw a pile of fine dust at it) .Time for the 600 wet and dry. Now hand sand again ,hopfully you will achieve a nice finish however if after sanding ther are still areas of black dusting this are low areas and will need addressing with very fine filler , i would use a polyester stopper filler. Wet flat this once dry.Stick another dust coat on and then re 400.Once you are happy that there are no high/low spots its time for a top coat.Choose a colour suitable for you decals bearing in mind the decals wont get the extreme edges and possible other areas of the cab.Apply your top coat of choice,leave to dry and hit again with the 600. Now its second coat time,leave the second coat to fully dry,Flat and polish stage time,(my favorite) Time to change to 1200 wet and dry,again warm water and a drop of washing up liquid.At this stage its more polishing rather than flatting.(if you were going to leave the cab just painted i would use 2000 wet and dry and then give it a clearcoat or a go over with g3 compound) Ok the cab should now be spot on, You may think this is over the top (choice is of course yours) but quite honestly its not a lot more work doing it like this than doing it poorly.Now apply your decals to this lovely surface by whatever method the manufacturers recommend for their glue type.Once the decals are on it should look top notch.For me i would then give the decals a coat of clear (asuming they were able to take it without reaction,) and then a buff with g3.
Like i say just how i would approach the task,You could quite happily just rub the cab down,apply filler where required,re rub the cab down and stick the decals on.But i know i would not be happy with the finish as every single imperfection and wood grain mark will show over time,Whilst doing all the above i would also give the inside of the cab similar love and finish of with the appropriate colour,probably a matt/satin finish.
I wasn't arguing btw all cool