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Price post threads...

JT.

JT.

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As many people who've been on this forum from it's inception migrated from the Yahoo UKPinball group, I think many of us know the downsides of constant "what is the likely cost of x pinball machine" threads. I have a confession: my own first UKPinball Group post was a pin price question. But having seen a few hundred of them and their lengthy and bickering replies, I became quite allergic to them and long since unsubscribed from that group.



In my view, the general pin price post is a futile question (at least, getting an accurate answer in £ is impossible). There are so many variables involved, such as condition of machine, what the seller paid, whether the seller wants to make profit, whether it's being sold privately, on ebay or by a pinball dealer, etc, that the question is unanswerable. It just leads to countless replies, often based on real life experience and given in good will, but ultimately pointless replies because the variables mentioned above, and others I've not even thought of, are unknown. To be accurate to within plus or minus £500 would be nigh on impossible.



I think the answer to this question is actually quite simple though (and I am genuinely not trying to be a smart **** here): the value or price is whatever you you can afford and are happy to pay. If you are not happy, don't buy.

We have a great resource in the form of the For Sale/Wanted/Trade section on this forum. My own experience is that Sellers/Buyers in that section will be happy to share their expectations around prices with you either in the post itself, or by PM, and do not take offence if you do not close on a deal because it's too costly for you, or for any other reason.



So my advice would be: if you want a pin, place a Wanted Ad. If you are thinking about getting a pin in the near future, place a Wanted Ad and make it clear you are only thinking about it. Anyone wanting rid will contact you, but you will be under no obligation to buy if it's too costly. Equally, the pin may still be available when you decide you are ready to proceed.



So why this post?

I've seen a few pin price questions popping up recently, and some of you may have noticed I did reply in those posts with my thoughts (worries, really, about where that type of thread leads). Mostly self regulation and the UKP experience of the early members on this forum has steered people away from these types of posts, but as more forum subscribers join us (and with a nice calendar of shows, and new manufacturers, I guess membership will only increase), I guess we will see more and more of these types of questions (from my own experience, I know it is the first question I had when I started in this hobby).



I guess, in summary, I don't want to be seen as the self appointed post police/an ****. But I do really like it here, and any slipping towards a UK Pinball Group style fills me with dread. It could be I'm in a minority with these views, but I wonder whether a sticky to help advise newbies before they make that post would be good?
 
Every pin has a ball park figure, changeable depending on condition/greediness of the seller.



If a noob wants to know a ball park figure I have no issue with that. If it stops him paying £3k for a TAF thats battered to bits then thats all the better.



Not trying to be facetious but you could always just not read those types of threads if it bothers you that much
 
Hmm. Also not wanting to be facetious, but I did stop reading those types of threads, by unsubscribing from the Yahoo Pinball group.



I just do not see that ballpark really works. My idea of ballpark will differ to another person's depending on our experiences. The changeable bit you mentioned can be a huge and material percentage of the total price of the pin, so the chance of a price estimate being accurate in an individual case is small; the fact that so many price estimates given on UKP differ so wildly is testament to this. The other problem is when every second or third post becomes a pin price post or a reply to one, like UKP.



With the technology at our disposal, I just think that it is as simple, and far more accurate (in fact, 100% accurate) for a newbie to just post a wanted add and agree the exact market value of the machine with a seller.
 
But you admitted yourself that you used to do it? And I'm assuming you got a more understanding answer than 'don't ask'
 
Actually no one replied to my post, but that's not really the point - hundreds of posts at the time were answering the same question, and most were effectively wrong.



If you re-read either of my posts above you will see that it does not just say "don't ask", it suggests a what I thought was a better alternative.



But it's OK you disagree; I really was not looking to start a case of the very bickering that resulted in me leaving UKP.
 
I can see what you are getting at but personally I find SOME price posts helpful as whilst condition is everything, pins do have a rough price point. For example someone new might be offered a CV and have no idea at all of what fair value is and so pay way over the odds and then be shocked when they cannot recoup anything near what they paid.



Prices are important because we all buy pinballs and so it is helpful to know what the ''going'' rate is even though I agree there are a ton of variables, but condition is surely the most important.
 
Nothing wrong with talking about prices. Its a VERY important part of the hobby. We should be cursing the day ebay was born as we all know its responsible for pin prices being the way they are. Damn you ebay!
 
I think price posts can be informative and should be viewed with an open mind...........why?? Basically because you don't have to read them coupled with the fact that it is one thread amongst hundreds of non price related posts on here so offence is minimal. I totally agree that the UK pin group was constantly bombarded with “what is a **** worth* questions and it was tedious to say the least, I replied to most (adding to the tediousness) as I purchase quite a lot of machines and take an interest in price trends (for most of us it is part and parcel of being within the hobby, it is just another piece of information associated with owning machines).



Like someone pointed out, machines do have a ballpark value, this can’t be denied otherwise the market would not function, I think it is possible to place a value within a £500 range on lower value machines, this would stretch to possibly a £1000 on the higher value titles respectively, this suggests that newbies can be advised as to roughly what they should expect to pay for a specific title in "X" condition which results in the forum doing what it’s supposed to do………be informative.



Maybe we should view the topic with fresh eyes or even have a page with the top 100 pins on there with all our ideas on price vs condition inputted and the data visible as an average………that is the best way to get an accurate interpretation of the anticipated value of a specific machine in “X†condition, it would also remove the need for the “what is a **** in “X†condition question†as the info submitted by 100’s of forum members would already be there averaged out for all to see.



End of problem, no more price questions to bother those who are offended and all the info newbies and veterans alike could possibly want regarding the subject :cool:.



p.s Anyone know what a worn out Gilligan's Island is worth? coupled with the fact that it is the last pin on earth....suggestions by pm please
tongue-1.png
 
http://www.pinpedia.com/ already does a sufficient job of gauging ballpark figures for machines. Beyond that though I'm in agreement with JT - there are lots of factors that will determine the actual price, and really it boils down to either 'how much are you prepared to pay' or 'how willing are you to let it go'



I think the escalation we're seeing in prices isn't solely down to ebay. I expect its people like me (and you) that now have a small amount of disposable income they're willing to throw at something they used to enjoy in their youth. We (the pinball community) are almost encouraging this escalation with events like the Slam, Daventry, Northern Lights etc
 
Noob speaking.

The places a noob initially finds out the prices of something is via eBay, a suppliers web site or if they are lucky a knowledgeable site like this one. If there are not examples for sell here, then some people will ask the question. Probably before they read a thread asking them not too. It is a tough one to stop.

Someone could find a good Addams for £1000 but someone else might have to pay £3500 when they are looking. So I do agree that prices are largely based on luck and timing.

Also, as pointed out, something is worth what the buyer will pay and the sell accept. I found that some sellers had high expectations for their machine but also that demand was pushing the prices up.

Maybe the answer should be for people to do their research and go visit a few machines, then work out what they know to be too expensive for them.
 
Wizcat' date=' post: 1691847 said:
http://www.pinpedia.com/ already does a sufficient job of gauging ballpark figures for machines.
Click to expand...



I personally think that Pinpedia does a terrible job at providing accurate pricing, it goes on ebay final value which can be manipulated (shilling) and as most machines do not go the distance on ebay, Pinpedia is pretty much a waste of time, cast iron testimony from forum members will give an accurate account and would be an interesting concise source of data IMO not just for current prices but also historically as charts could be plotted from constantly updated info to show the trends.
 
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