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Pin Rental

Widnesbernie

Widnesbernie

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
146
Location
Widnes,Cheshire
Regarding the recent threads in the machines for sale forum.
I feel that they should be titled for what they are, "pins available for rental".
The original thread by Roadshow16 begins with him not wanting to sell any pins, he doesn't want to part with any, but he is out of room. This sounds like he wants more but cannot fit any in.
Following this logic, if this becomes commonplace will it mean even less pins coming up for sale?
Will the only pins available for sale be the lesser sought titles which are struggling to find a rented home, with the popular ones being rented out?

If I had a pin on loan, I would expect to keep it in good condition and have to get any breakdowns, replacement parts, etc sorted out at my expense.
If I was renting one I would expect the above to be sorted out by whoever I am renting it from. Are the people renting them out going to be prepared to do this or do they think calling this a loan will mean that they do not have to do this?

Maybe there should be a thread title of "pin space available for rent". People could charge a storage fee so that people did not have to sell a pin that they want to keep. The person storing it would agree to keep the pin in good condition and pay/sort any problems in return for a monthly fee.
 
Personally I think the loaning rental of pins is a great idea, as I’m not in a financial position to buy one myself. Whether it’s a loan or rental, I would be more than happy, keep the pin clean and tidy, with basic maintenance, as it’s someone’s pride and joy, and only right to keep it looking and playing nice.
But if I was paying a fee a month, I would expect the pin owner to do repairs, and technical problems.
It’s the same as the cooker I rent, any issues and I’m on the phone to Hughes, you’re paying for the service.
 
On the face of it, I think it’s a great idea, people get to share machines, at a relatively low cost and owners get to keep machines they don’t want to sell.

However, like most things the devil is in the detail.

For example

- Who pays for any faulty parts? Not much money for rubbers or balls etc., but what happens if a board goes down?

- Are they insured against fire or water damage, if so, who is insuring them?

- Not everyone has a heated games room or keeps them in the house, so is a cold and damp garage still OK?

I can see this causing issues between members who are renting out and members who are paying.
 
If people are happy with the arrangement seems fine - but as its already been pointed out - going to have to ensure the finer points are agreed to prevent disagreements I think.
Also, replacement parts can vary from cheap to "how much" (to cant get em anymore - obviously unobtanium parts are probably less like to arbitrarily break down through normal use - but it guess it could happen).
Im quite happy to poke at my pins and try and fix them when they break (I seem to have managed OK thus far) but not sure I would be as comfortable poking at someone elses just in case it all goes pete tong. And of course what one person considers a perfectly good repair might be viewed as a shabby to others.

Still all comes back to the same thing though - make sure both bods agree the details first ?
 
I've been loaning pins out and borrowing them from others for a long time.

I guess the dynamics change when there is money involved but I'm sure the same basic premise applies. . . . . . You probably don't want to be lending a pinball machine worth thousands of pounds to someone unknown to you, your friends or the community.

Good luck to Craig & Steve. I think loaning pins out is a cracking idea and I certainly don't think it will lessen the number of pins available for sale. I have two games out for loan that I'd never consider selling and I think Godzilla will be popping on holiday too at some point.

I know for a fact that Craig has games on his list that he has no intention of selling, so people are going to get the chance to play them who previously wouldn't.
 
I would never rent my games to anyone
You will get a renter who thinks that "I am paying $50 per week, I have the right to kick the f*** out of it", and if someone does significant damage, either purposely or accident....lets just say, good luck getting it from the renter
 
I have two pins out on loan and two pins on loan, most people on here look after our pride and joys.
This week I will be sad to see Batman going back but equally looking forward for the Munsters returned.

A loan or a rental gives other people a chance to play different pins. With my Divorce heating up I might have to loan my pins out, could save me money.
 
We're loaning three games out and borrowing four and those aren't the same people 😆

I've borrowed Steves Elektra about 9 months, I wanted to experience an earlier Bally and learn how they work. I fixed a few of the boards as there were little issues, but nothing expensive just a few SCRs/transistors or reflowing pins. Add in some replacement rubbers and general tweaks to playability.


I think with a loan you pay for any small issues, broken rubbers, bulbs, new balls. But anything bigger is the responsibility of the owner. Eg, if bk2k had a major board issue I wouldn't expect the borrower to pay for the board to be repaired.
More expensive mechs I'd not expect the loaner to pay for either as it's pinball and those parts wear with age anyway.
If the borrower is competent in low level board repair and the issue is a small one (transistors for lamps/coils) then they could fix it under agreement with the loaner

With a lot of loans the loaner often gets the pin back in better condition than it was loaned in 😆

When you're paying to rent one it becomes a bit different. Any issues should be covered by the owner by paying for parts or a repair by a tech if the borrower isn't confident in the task.
Widnesbernie said:
this becomes commonplace
Click to expand...

It already is and has been commonplace for a long time.
 
David_Vi said:
We're loaning three games out and borrowing four and those aren't the same people 😆

I've borrowed Steves Elektra about 9 months, I wanted to experience an earlier Bally and learn how they work. I fixed a few of the boards as there were little issues, but nothing expensive just a few SCRs/transistors or reflowing pins. Add in some replacement rubbers and general tweaks to playability.


I think with a loan you pay for any small issues, broken rubbers, bulbs, new balls. But anything bigger is the responsibility of the owner. Eg, if bk2k had a major board issue I wouldn't expect the borrower to pay for the board to be repaired.
More expensive mechs I'd not expect the loaner to pay for either as it's pinball and those parts wear with age anyway.
If the borrower is competent in low level board repair and the issue is a small one (transistors for lamps/coils) then they could fix it under agreement with the loaner



It already is and has been commonplace for a long time.
Click to expand...

Rentals (in the community at least) are not commonplace, I think that is point the original poster is trying to make. Your points, whilst is valid for loans, are not really related to rentals (I.e. money is exchanged each month over a period of time for a machine).
 
I think it’s very simple, you either loan to friends as has obviously happened between members for a long time or you rent/lease to people in general on the premise that Matt Vince above and other commercial pinball businesses do.

When the lines get blurred, that’s when things turn ugly, costly or both!
 
IMHO people shouldn't hoard games in storage. It reduces the supply and increases prices. Just sell it on for the next guy to enjoy!

A pinball rental market will only drive prices up further, as is the case for housing btw.

These games are made to be played. Everytime a pin is tombstoned into storage god kills a kitten. :sad:
 
After reading the post, pin for loan / rent it gave me some ideas as I own some popular titles.

if I could get the £150 per month for a few of my games then it could be paying my mortgage , result!
or I could save the money and buy another pin and rent that out 🤔 would be like free money coming in and I could keep doing the same over and over, plus it would be like someone paying me to put my pins in storage.
although as soon as you start “renting“ games out you’ll have to notify the tax man as your earnings will go up? Unless you start a ltd company.

Also how does the insurance work?
If a faulty electrical machine you have “rented“ catches fire and burns the property down of the person you rented it to then surely you are liable? Even worse if there was a fatality!
Where do things stand there?
Also the same could be said for a game you lent out but if you are paying rent for one I’m sure the law would look at it differently?
if you start renting games then surely your now becoming an operator?

So much more comes into it as soon as you start charging the public to rent things from you no matter what they are.

loans are completely different altogether that’s an agreement between two people, as soon as money is involved it’s a different story.
 
Happypin said:
With my Divorce heating up I might have to loan my pins out, could save me money.
Click to expand...
Same with my bro, I own 50% of his/our rentals up in Luton and Rushden.
Just had a special delivery from her lawyers, it was a shock to her.

The 2.5 mil family house and overseas properties weren’t enough🤨
 
Fubar said:
IMHO people shouldn't hoard games in storage. It reduces the supply and increases prices. Just sell it on for the next guy to enjoy!

A pinball rental market will only drive prices up further, as is the case for housing btw.

These games are made to be played. Everytime a pin is tombstoned into storage god kills a kitten. :sad:
Click to expand...

I agree with you regarding storage of big collections. But I'd like to store a handful so I can swap games around... I am scared of selling and regretting it! But like a change for a short period.

I would rather loan or borrow but that's not always possible.

I know of ex operators who have HUGE collections just sitting in storage, 100s of games that you'll probably never see en masse unless that person passes.
Occasionally one or two will pop up for sale because it's how they're funding their retirement and I suppose it's their right to do that although it is sad to think of all those games, some rare and some big names that are sitting probably in bad condition 😔
 
M4carp said:
Same with my bro, I own 50% of his/our rentals up in Luton and Rushden.
Just had a special delivery from her lawyers, it was a shock to her.

The 2.5 mil family house and overseas properties weren’t enough🤨
Click to expand...
my brother owns half of the collection and counting 😉
 
Hi

As a newbie I'd really like to try (rent) a pin machine at home before taking the plunge to finally buy. The difficulty being that I don't know anyone in the NE/Yorkshire who could mentor/help me with maintenance - does anyone have any suggestions or contacts I could approach?

Best wishes

Allistair
 
AD1 said:
Hi

As a newbie I'd really like to try (rent) a pin machine at home before taking the plunge to finally buy. The difficulty being that I don't know anyone in the NE/Yorkshire who could mentor/help me with maintenance - does anyone have any suggestions or contacts I could approach?

Best wishes

Allistair
Click to expand...
You have the Nerg event locally that you could go to and meet people. Also lots of machines to try.
 
I borrowed an AC/DC pro off @steve brum a few years ago.
The deal was I serviced it.
It came back to him serviced, and fully LED'ed.
I got to enjoy the pin for a bit and in reality - it did not cost me a lot.
If anything would of gone wrong in that time of me borrowing - I would make sure I fixed it.
 
Pick Holder said:
I borrowed an AC/DC pro off @steve brum a few years ago.
The deal was I serviced it.
It came back to him serviced, and fully LED'ed.
I got to enjoy the pin for a bit and in reality - it did not cost me a lot.
If anything would of gone wrong in that time of me borrowing - I would make sure I fixed it.
Click to expand...
It’s the node boards in these morden sterns that scare me especially the price. If one of those die who is liable for the bill?
 
It doesn’t take a lot for a deal to go south, one airball and a plastic has gone.

Renting a pin for £100 a month is a bargain. Loaning one out at that rate would see a minimal return after wear and tear is considered. Probably worth it if you consider it as free storage for your games.

I’ve never dared look at how much my old games would be worth if I’d kept them rather than selling them. 😱

I remember an eBay sale for “Clint’s pinball division” (the name might have been slightly different). The guy wanted to sell up and had a range of top 90s title but wanted to sell 7 or so games for £12k all in one fell swoop. Poor guy couldn’t get the price he wanted. Fast forward 10-12 years how much would that lot go for now? Can blame people for no5 wanting to sell.
 
Fubar said:
IMHO people shouldn't hoard games in storage. It reduces the supply and increases prices. Just sell it on for the next guy to enjoy!

A pinball rental market will only drive prices up further, as is the case for housing btw.

These games are made to be played. Everytime a pin is tombstoned into storage god kills a kitten. :sad:
Click to expand...

There is loaning pinball machines and renting them as a money making exercise. Loaning it, oh sorry mate, I dropped the head and put an new gash in the top of it. Annoyed but that's pinball. If you are loaning pins out and don't think this is going to happen to you - be prepared for disappointment - eyes wide open.

The latter looks scary as hell to me. One you need to get them PAT tested, two you'd need third party liability insurance and three, if any damage happens to them you most likely don't have a leg to stand on unless you take a much bigger deposit like rental car companies. Then you have corp tax and if you have other stuff in your business potentially VAT. Brand newish games easy to tell what works and what doesn't Older games: "That wasn't working when it arrived".

so I have loads of games in storage, I tend to buy and rarely sell, most of these get swapped in and out of the club and used for UK Open. I'd happy store less but its been tough to get folks to bring games to the Open, so I just decided I would take care of much of that as possible. I'm a net importer though, with me importing a lot of games now into the UK some of them very rare.

Those operator collections that David talks about, brave if you buy any of them for more than a a few hundred or so and storage isn't as expensive as you think either.
 
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