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Moving pins upstairs - somewhat eccentric solution!

C

C&C

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This is definitely not for everyone, and in many ways, it doesn't make a lot of sense (especially the cost unless you take into consideration the "cost" of a damaged back/knees), but I thought I'd post this up if for no other reason than to potentially provide a little amusement/interest.

Currently the only permanent space in the house for pins is in a front room upstairs.

When I got TNA, 3 of us manhandled it upstairs, but it was a heck of a struggle - especially the 90 degree turn at the top, so I decided to try to sort out a better solution for the longer term, as TNA wasn't going to be the only pin, and I'd need to be able to get any new pin upstairs, and likely get pins downstairs to swap in future. Given advancing years and vulnerable back/knees etc, it had to be a solution requiring minimal effort, and ideally something I could achieve on my own.

I realise this is a long way from what could be considered "normal", and that my better half is more than a little understanding, but I came up with the idea of installing some type of hoist which would enable the pins to be taken up the stairs, and then slid over the bannister on the landing (thus avoiding the 90 degree bend at the top of the stairs), and lowered onto a trolley.

Well, I finally finished the solution, and am very happy that my Black Knight SOR is now safely upstairs, and I managed it on my own with minimal physical effort.

Bottom of stairs:
51761442421_333297b3a1_c.jpg

Hoist:
51760611987_648ba4941b_c.jpg

On the way up:
51762091234_02c76460f6_c.jpg

Hanging at the top of the stairs:
51761442401_40100b3bd5_c.jpg

On the banister (sitting on memory foam mattress topper for protection):
51762304345_c794430fb5_c.jpg

On the landing (lowered onto the trolley):
51761683268_975b909c1e_c.jpg

And finally, here's a link to a bit of video on FlickR.

I realise it's a bit Heath Robinson, and probably over-specced - I didn't want to take any risks of it failing, so the hoist will handle 500Kg, and everything else (straps, carabiners, RSJ etc..) significantly more than that.

I hope it provides a bit of amusement, and in any case, I'm happy as it works pretty well, and now means that moving pins (and any other heavy items) up/downstairs is something I can achieve on my own with minimal physical effort!

🙂
 
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That’s pretty cool, I’d be lifting my self up the stairs with it as well, why walk when there is a lift!
 
For modern pins it doesn't take too long to detach the head and remove the playfield, then move all 3 pieces separately (assuming there's 2 of you anyway).

Great choices btw - TNA and BKSR two of my favourite pins :)
 
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Looks like the same hoist I bought to do the same job. Moved house though and never actually used it in the end. Currently gathering dust in the garage.
 
Rob zombie said:
Looks like the same hoist I bought to do the same job. Moved house though and never actually used it in the end. Currently gathering dust in the garage.
Click to expand...

How much was it Mr Z?? Might be interested in getting one, depending on how my Garden build goes (potentially lots of rather vertical steps!!)
 
Paul said:
How much was it Mr Z?? Might be interested in getting one, depending on how my Garden build goes (potentially lots of rather vertical steps!!)
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how you share the link but this one...00593DDE-4659-4DA0-8DF5-0953838F7923.png
 
One thing to bear in mind is that it will only lift the max weight with the cable doubled up, which halves your distance.
 
I was going to say you were thinking of doing this but took the rather aggressive step of moving instead.
I just fancied a winch so nearly bought one as a fun project.
 
I think I'd sooner rewire the house to move the kitchen upstairs tbh.

...not dissing the effort behind this prime piece of an Engineer's Solution (tm) as I have the same sort of neurological defect that creates engineers - but that winch remaining there when I'm not moving pins would drive me insane!
 
Rob zombie said:
One thing to bear in mind is that it will only lift the max weight with the cable doubled up, which halves your distance.
Click to expand...

The one I used has a capacity of 250kg on a single cable at a max cable length of 12 metres (so could deal with 500kg if the cable was doubled up, reducing the cable length to just under 6m). It was, however, more expensive, but also has motorised wheels which allow it to move across the landing along the RSJ, rather than being fixed to one point. This was important for me as I wanted it to lift the pin up the stairs, but then also move it across the landing to lower onto the waiting trolley.

I got it from this website. The model is a Procat 500, and it was around 400 Euros.

I completely understand the comment re. it annoying some people between it being useful, but it doesn't really bother me, and fortunately (as alluded to in the original post), my better half doesn't have a problem with it. I did say that this was a bit eccentric, and wouldn't suit everyone! 🙂 🙂 🙂
 
Did you screw bolts into those wooden joist supports all the way from outside the house?
 
Rob zombie said:
Did you screw bolts into those wooden joist supports all the way from outside the house?
Click to expand...

No - the bolts (300mm long, and M24 size diameter) go around 180mm into the (strong brick) wall and are secured with a chemical anchor resin. Whilst this will deal with very considerable "pulling" force, the main force experienced by the bolts is a lateral one, parallel with the wall, so they are easily able to meet the demands put on them.

On the other end of the RSJ (across the landing), the wooden support also has 5 "bolts" holding it up. 2 of these go directly into the "end" of a brick supporting wall and are secured with chemical anchor resin. The other 3, I used longer M24 stainless rods, which go through the internal wall, and are secured with nuts inside the games room. To help spread the weight a little, I also put a piece of 12mm plywood next to the wall inside the games room, which they also go through. Once tightened, I sawed the ends of the rods off, removing the excess length.

Here is the link to the studs.
Here is the link to the chemical resin.

Sadly, in response to the request from @PAX , I seem to be completely unable to find the link for the "understanding wife" - apologies for that! :)
 
Mfresh said:
So the memory foam mattress… is it to protect the bannister or the bottom of the pinball machine? Just wondering where your priorities lie!
Click to expand...

Both really, but mainly the bottom of the pinbll machine!
 
C&C said:
No - the bolts (300mm long, and M24 size diameter) go around 180mm into the (strong brick) wall and are secured with a chemical anchor resin. Whilst this will deal with very considerable "pulling" force, the main force experienced by the bolts is a lateral one, parallel with the wall, so they are easily able to meet the demands put on them.

On the other end of the RSJ (across the landing), the wooden support also has 5 "bolts" holding it up. 2 of these go directly into the "end" of a brick supporting wall and are secured with chemical anchor resin. The other 3, I used longer M24 stainless rods, which go through the internal wall, and are secured with nuts inside the games room. To help spread the weight a little, I also put a piece of 12mm plywood next to the wall inside the games room, which they also go through. Once tightened, I sawed the ends of the rods off, removing the excess length.

Here is the link to the studs.
Here is the link to the chemical resin.

Sadly, in response to the request from @PAX , I seem to be completely unable to find the link for the "understanding wife" - apologies for that! :)
Click to expand...
This whole anchoring to the house side of the setup was what put me off the idea in the end. I got cold feet about the possibility of structural damage and ultimately decided to leave it. While the weight is down low it's lateral, but once it's up those stairs it's very much torsional.
 
Rob zombie said:
This whole anchoring to the house side of the setup was what put me off the idea in the end. I got cold feet about the possibility of structural damage and ultimately decided to leave it. While the weight is down low it's lateral, but once it's up those stairs it's very much torsional.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand this comment?

When the weight is at the bottom of the stairs, there's a slight sideways moment as it pulls the weight up the first few stairs, which is alleviated a little with a pulley I mounted in the middle of the stairs, and just above your head as you stand on about the 5th stair.

After that point, the weight is hanging free, so all force on the winch is vertically down. The winch is designed for this type of loading, and the centre of gravity of the whole thing (pinball machine, cable, and winch) is centred on the RSJ.

In essence, once above the first couple of steps, the weight is simply a vertical load down on the RSJ, so there's not really any torsional, or twisting force on anything.

The force on the RSJ being vertical means that the force on the wooden brackets is also a planar vertical force, so again, nothing trying to twist the wooden bracket.

The use of chemical anchor resin rather than something like an expanding anchor bolt also pretty much eliminates any danger of structural damage to the wall when installing the threaded rods, as it flows into the gaps between the rod and the wall, filling them, then sets hard.

Also, when you think of it, even a JJP pinball weighing 280lbs is only the equivalent of a 20 stone person. I'd certainly expect to be able to fasten a pull-up bar to the house walls which could handle that load without worrying about structural damage, and would likely use much less "beefy" fixings.
 
I do like your idea 👍. But…………….
That RSJ should be sitting in your wall or something like 6”x12” metal Gallows brackets at both ends . You say there is 2” of bolt in the brickwork ? Don’t forget the walls are plastered , so that’s mean’s you are down to 1 1/2” or even less if it is a drywall plastered wall . Something like this should have at least 3” of bolt into brickwork ! That wooden block has to hold up the weight of the RSJ , hoist and the pinball machine . If or when that fails it will be very bad indeed !
 
carl lawrence said:
I do like your idea 👍. But…………….
That RSJ should be sitting in your wall or something like 6”x12” metal Gallows brackets at both ends . You say there is 2” of bolt in the brickwork ? Don’t forget the walls are plastered , so that’s mean’s you are down to 1 1/2” or even less if it is a drywall plastered wall . Something like this should have at least 3” of bolt into brickwork ! That wooden block has to hold up the weight of the RSJ , hoist and the pinball machine . If or when that fails it will be very bad indeed !
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Hi Carl,

I'm not sure where you got the 2" of bolt in the brickwork from?

I said that the bolts are 300mm long (12 inches), and that 180mm (7 inches) is buried in the brickwork.

As the wall is directly plastered (not drywalled then plastered), assuming 1/2 inch of plaster, this still leaves 155mm (6.5 inches) of bolt actually secured in the brickwork, which is still over twice the length of the minimum that you stated (3 inches) that would be needed for this.

I've read the thread again, and still don't see anywhere I said 2 inches only in the brickwork. I'd want more than that even for putting up a shelf, never mind something like this. :)
 
C&C said:
I'm not sure I understand this comment?

When the weight is at the bottom of the stairs, there's a slight sideways moment as it pulls the weight up the first few stairs, which is alleviated a little with a pulley I mounted in the middle of the stairs, and just above your head as you stand on about the 5th stair.

After that point, the weight is hanging free, so all force on the winch is vertically down. The winch is designed for this type of loading, and the centre of gravity of the whole thing (pinball machine, cable, and winch) is centred on the RSJ.

In essence, once above the first couple of steps, the weight is simply a vertical load down on the RSJ, so there's not really any torsional, or twisting force on anything.

The force on the RSJ being vertical means that the force on the wooden brackets is also a planar vertical force, so again, nothing trying to twist the wooden bracket.

The use of chemical anchor resin rather than something like an expanding anchor bolt also pretty much eliminates any danger of structural damage to the wall when installing the threaded rods, as it flows into the gaps between the rod and the wall, filling them, then sets hard.

Also, when you think of it, even a JJP pinball weighing 280lbs is only the equivalent of a 20 stone person. I'd certainly expect to be able to fasten a pull-up bar to the house walls which could handle that load without worrying about structural damage, and would likely use much less "beefy" fixings.
Click to expand...
The force on the rsj may be lateral but because it's mounted on a block attached to the wall, rather than inserted into the wall, it's going to be exerting a twisting force on the wall at the attach point. Probably not enough to fail but I would question what's above those bricks preventing them from collapsing inwards.
 
Also, it's not going to be the same as a 20 stone man on a pull up bar. The winch needs to exert a greater force than the weight of the pinball machine to lift it.
 
What an effort Conrad, and I suspect useful for many who have space upstairs thanks for the share, one other advantage is you can also double it as a chairlift for you and the Mrs when you get older :D :D :D

One question I had though was how many pins are you putting in the games room upstairs? I just wondered if there was any limits/concerns on the floor loading? Not sure how your house is built but I'm assuming it has joists running across with ceiling on the lower side and floorboards on the top side?
 
Rob zombie said:
The force on the rsj may be lateral but because it's mounted on a block attached to the wall, rather than inserted into the wall, it's going to be exerting a twisting force on the wall at the attach point. Probably not enough to fail but I would question what's above those bricks preventing them from collapsing inwards.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification - I now understand the point you are making, which is a valid one.

There are several courses of beicks above the mounting point, then the roof beams etc..

I think there are 3 key things here -

Firstly, the walls seem extremely well constructed - even drilling them is a challenge (the Sky installer went through 2 drill bits putting a hole through).

Secondly, whilst you are correct that there will be some twisting force, I think that because the mount point is so close to the wall, this will be pretty limited, especially as the other end of the RSJ is similarly supported.

Finally, the RSJ is butted hard up to the wall at both ends i.e. it is jammed very tightly between the 2 supporting walls (I had to use a lump hammer to encourage it into its final position), so any movement inwards of one supporting wall would require the other supporting wall to be pushed outwards, and vice versa.

I'm confident that the solution is well over-engineered, but even so, the hoist will NEVER be used with anyone below it so any risk will be limited to building/pinball damage, rather than risk of injury.
 
Neil McRae said:
What an effort Conrad, and I suspect useful for many who have space upstairs thanks for the share, one other advantage is you can also double it as a chairlift for you and the Mrs when you get older :D :D :D

One question I had though was how many pins are you putting in the games room upstairs? I just wondered if there was any limits/concerns on the floor loading? Not sure how your house is built but I'm assuming it has joists running across with ceiling on the lower side and floorboards on the top side?
Click to expand...

At the moment, the plan is only for 2 pins, maybe 3 max, and the back box (heavy) ends are up against a structural wall, so well supported.

Yes, the construction is joists with floorboards, although the pins are also sitting on thick rubber gym mats with plywood on top to help spread the point loads from the legs, and also to enable the feet to slide a little when nudging the game.

A log cabin would still be the plan for any further expansion in pin numbers!
 
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