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It's a barn-raising, English......

johnwhitfield

johnwhitfield

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OK, things have come to a head and I can no longer fit any more machines in my games room. (Hell, I can barely fit in there myself let alone work on the pins). Now the sensible thing to do would be to stop buying more and thin down the collection but we all know that just isn't going to happen :eyebrows:.

Instead, I'm now looking at building a shed at the bottom of the garden. My wife thinks this will allow her to get the existing room back but we all know that this is clearly an additional area.

Anyway being utterly non-practical in the ways of shed building I need to pick peoples brains.

1) Sheds crap, wooden summer houses / lodge better? Does a summer house still need to be additionally insulated?
2) Any recommendations as to manufacturers?
3) The space is roughly 20 foot across by 16 foot deep. However this will take it virtually up to the fences on either side. Do I need to allow extra room to get around it for maintenance etc?
4) Flooring, I'm assuming that it needs to be tongue and groove on top of a concrete base. How easy is it to create a stable flat base or should I pay a builder to do this?
5) Height - 7 foot at the eves?
6) As I live in a terrace, is it going to be possible to get it through the house?
7) Roofing. Should I pay the extra for proper tiling?
8) Is it worth paying extra for double glazing? Not only for the warmth but from a sound reduction point of view?
9) Should I cough the money to get it built by professionals or are they easy to assemble??
10) what's the minimum width for the door that people would recommend? Lots seem to have really narrow doorways which would be a nightmare (I'm guessing 74cm+)
11) Was really planning on putting the B-listers in the shed as it'll be too cold to use it in the depths of winter. How bad is the cold for DMD era games?
12) Budget. Was initially hoping for around grand. Initial research now makes this laughable. Should 4 grand be do-able? (that's 4 games i could buy instead....)

Any other key factors I need to think about?

Any advice from people who have already built one or are thinking about it would be very gratefully received.

Cheers

John
 
Hey John, right I am mr insomnia tonight so I'll have a crack .....:D


1. Def summer house/cabin. Not a thin skinned BnQ garden tool shed. Insulation is good idea, although I have known people have cabin style rooms with fairly thick wood walls ...45mm+ and they say they are ok.

2. Dunster House seem to be popular. Though it could be worth checking out what a local reputable builder could construct.

3. Would be advisable to leave enough space that you could squeeze down for maintenance, treating it etc. Wood needs looking after. I'm not sure if there is any legal requirements for how close you can go to a neighbours boundary, I think with this sort of structure there isn't. I know height can be an issue - I think 2.5m is max before you might have planning permission issues. Best check this out.

4. Concrete base is the usual way, and then supporting joists/frame sit on it. Normally you would want 4" of concrete on 2" compacted subbase/hardcore. So the area needs cleared and be made fairly level before you start. Basically have you ever mixed concrete before ?? Its not rocket science but if not prob best get someone in to do the base. Easy to balls it up, especially the levelling.

5. Internal height at eaves - yep ideally high enough to take a game with a topper. But again overall height/design of building may be a factor in determining this inside.

6. Hmmm. Depends how house laid out i guess. You would have to check with supplier/builder. Anything is possible though, I have seen hot tubs being crane lifted over houses into gardens.

7. I guess if budget stretches. Though decent felted done properly should have decent lifespan.

8. Again, yes if budget allows. Bear in mind that in summer you may well want/need door/window open anyway and so the sound reduction is a moot point.

9. Have you done much DIY/construction ? Have you got tools ? Are you comfortable using impact driver etc ? Again not rocket science but if any doubt get someone to do it.

10. Ideally double/french doors. If single then yeah about 75cm ok for modern machines, some older SS games have wider backboxes than that , though they are less hassle to remove if necessary.

11. Cold of itself isn't too much of an issue for DMD games. In the depths of winter prob wise to have some sort of heater on a timer to kick in every now and again to keep worst of the chill off. Loads of folk keep dmd games in these sort of garden cabins/shacks with no prob at all.

12 . Budget ...the million dollar question. You can certainly find an off the peg cabin for that price. Its the other stuff that starts to add up though ...the base, the construction, the electrics ??? How are you doing the leccy. If down the garden then you are gonna need this connected in yr house, run down there in armoured cable, small consumer unit in the cabin etc. Obviously you NEED to have a qualified spark doing all that.

Hope that helps
 
Cheers Ive,

lots of info there.

Regarding electric, there is a cable already running down there from my existing room into a really crappy small old shed. Problem is that as it runs from my existing room I think I'm pushing the limits of the circuit already. Dreading having to run a spur from the kitchen into it, as we've only recently had it redone and I can imagine Anna's face if I start hacking it apart for cabling. (Never actually run more than 10 machines at once, so I guess I should sling them all on one day and check the wiring can take it)

Given I don't even know what an impact driver is I suspect I'll have to get someone in to build it.

Bugger, I suspect this is going to end up costing as much as my collections worth....

Cheers again

John
 
I had a sparky from Harrow, come and continue the existing ring into the extension for my two pinball machines. He did a lot of other work in the kitchen so it is hard to give an exact price but I would expect that to be under £300. During this we sort out a spur going out into the garden but a spur is usually used for only a few things not a whole pinball shack. Better to plan the electrics first and have them where you want them rather than try to make it fit afterwards and a quote now won't cost you anything.

As we talked about before. I think the pinball community should get together and help build these shacks when someones addiction has got bad enough they need our support. :wave:
 
John

DO NOT think about just spurring off yr existing cabling for this. You are asking for major issues and potentially very dangerous :eeek: There are whole issues with earthing - without going into details ,for a garden building like that you cannot just import the earth from your house ! You may even need the earth bonding in yr house upgraded, it needs RCD protection etc etc. That is part of the regs now. Get a qualified electrician in to quote you for it. It needs a dedicated new circuit for the cabin - and that means it needs signing off by a qualified spark/notifying to local building control. I'm afraid Geoffs estimate of £300 wont cover a proper job like this

Seriously - electricity can and does kill. Dont mess with it :nono: Make sure the electrician you use is registered with one of the approved bodies NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA etc. Sorry to get all heavy but I have worked as a sparkys mate and seen so many dodgy bodges you would not believe.

Oh I still have a Spiderman promo keyfob for you.
 
Just to qualify, my £300 was for extending the existing ring into an extension. I full support what GrizZ is saying and was trying to say look into it now as the price might be another sting you need to know about.
 
Cheers Guys,

Suspect the answer might be to chuck cash at the problem and pay for someone to do it all (don't really want to fry either of the kids). Might try to see if the Mrs wants to sort it all out as part of her overall "household improvement" plan. (although after she managed to spend over a grand on blinds for the kitchen I fear for my bank balance:frusty:)

Oh well, better put off retirement for a few more years...
 
1K!!
Crikey.
I would agree with what is allready said - get a quality shed - £2k or so.
Get sufficient power to it - probably 10mm cable.
Cold does not bother me for my pin collection.I am always more bothered about drastic temp changes for my backglass games,and moisture.
For that reason I have two dehumidifiers in the pin rooms - even tho it is essentially one room.
Room is unheated,unless I go in there and put the electric heater on.
At the moment it is 8.5 degrees with 56% humidity.
Room has 6" high density foam in the roof joists.And 2 1/2" Kingspan high density foam/metal interlocking panels in the walls.
Been like that for years and it a great pinball room - especially with my 40th birthday present neon on the wall(bought for me by my great pin head mates:whoo:)

Do it - ya wont regret it
 
Cheers Poibug,

Think I've reconciled myself to spending more than I wanted, might as well do it right.

Discovered that I'm a true nerd as I got over excited when I discovered solar powered heaters for sheds......

Think I'm going to bite the bullet and get someone in for the base and electrics

As an aside I'm now starting to wonder what would happen if I put all my machines on at one go in the house as I've never had the entire collection on at one time.....:noidea:
 
dmd pins take 2 1/2 amps or so.
If on a normal ring main - with other things attached you would prob be better limiting it to,at a guess 5 on max.As this is about 12 amps or so.Leaving 20 amps or so avail for other stuff eg drier,kettle etc.Assuming a fair few things there eg one ring main with a 32a circuit breaker on it
 
Interesting to read how this pans out, good luck with it. I have an armoured electrical cable supply to the 'typical' shed at moment in advance of a decent cabin in the future. I've just posted in the other thread about Dunster House though, website looks appealing but there's a multitude of complaints on the MSE (Money Saving Expert) forum.
 
johnwhitfield said:
OK, things have come to a head and I can no longer fit any more machines in my games room. (Hell, I can barely fit in there myself let alone work on the pins). Now the sensible thing to do would be to stop buying more and thin down the collection but we all know that just isn't going to happen :eyebrows:.

Instead, I'm now looking at building a shed at the bottom of the garden. My wife thinks this will allow her to get the existing room back but we all know that this is clearly an additional area.

Anyway being utterly non-practical in the ways of shed building I need to pick peoples brains.

1) Sheds crap, wooden summer houses / lodge better? Does a summer house still need to be additionally insulated?
2) Any recommendations as to manufacturers?
3) The space is roughly 20 foot across by 16 foot deep. However this will take it virtually up to the fences on either side. Do I need to allow extra room to get around it for maintenance etc?
4) Flooring, I'm assuming that it needs to be tongue and groove on top of a concrete base. How easy is it to create a stable flat base or should I pay a builder to do this?
5) Height - 7 foot at the eves?
6) As I live in a terrace, is it going to be possible to get it through the house?
7) Roofing. Should I pay the extra for proper tiling?
8) Is it worth paying extra for double glazing? Not only for the warmth but from a sound reduction point of view?
9) Should I cough the money to get it built by professionals or are they easy to assemble??
10) what's the minimum width for the door that people would recommend? Lots seem to have really narrow doorways which would be a nightmare (I'm guessing 74cm+)
11) Was really planning on putting the B-listers in the shed as it'll be too cold to use it in the depths of winter. How bad is the cold for DMD era games?
12) Budget. Was initially hoping for around grand. Initial research now makes this laughable. Should 4 grand be do-able? (that's 4 games i could buy instead....)

Any other key factors I need to think about?

Any advice from people who have already built one or are thinking about it would be very gratefully received.

Cheers

John
Click to expand...

In similar situation myself as planned kitchen extension/games room not feasible due to lack of windows/light allowed.

1) Would either go for Log Cabin, can get 35mm or 44mm walls, or purpose built from concrete blocks.

2) We already have a small log cabin and got that from a firm called kybotech but think they trade as www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk - all comes flat packed.

3) Yes you really need to leave space around the back and sides especially if you go the log cabin route.

4) Yes need a concrete base whichever option you choose - with a log cabin kit you get the option of different spec floors.

5) Think max height allowed at eves is 2.5m but if you google garden shed planning that should take you to the Gov. site - floor area also needs to be considered

"If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation."

"If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials."

6) Log cabins come flat packed on 3 or 4 pallets so you would be able to carry it through the house - carefully as some bits could be 2.5 to 3.5m long!

7) Different roofing options available on Log Cabins or if purpose built block then you can have clay/concrete tiles.

8) Double glazing option is available on Log Cabin plus you might need some background heat and most important a dehumidifier.

9) Purpose built then maybe use builder who is doing concrete base - Log Cabin assembly definitely need some help as not a one man job plus need technical no how as well.

10) Different Log Cabins have different sized doors but think i'm going for a double door then you aren't restricted.

11) Not sure but i'm going to have background heat and dehumidifier as back up.

12) You might get a really crappy shed for 1k but think 4k is more realistic.

I'm looking at a BillyOh Dorset Log Cabin from garden buildings direct and that works out at around 2.5k for a fully specced one, 44mm walls plus double glazing, superior floor and roofing so with getting somebody in to build a base and help me assemble should come in well under 4k but then add on electrician, cable, junction box, sockets plus heating and dehumidifier then will probably end up at 4k.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Steve
 
In similar situation myself as planned kitchen extension/games room not feasible due to lack of windows/light allowed.

1) Would either go for Log Cabin, can get 35mm or 44mm walls, or purpose built from concrete blocks.

2) We already have a small log cabin and got that from a firm called kybotech but think they trade as www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk - all comes flat packed.

3) Yes you really need to leave space around the back and sides especially if you go the log cabin route.

4) Yes need a concrete base whichever option you choose - with a log cabin kit you get the option of different spec floors.

5) Think max height allowed at eves is 2.5m but if you google garden shed planning that should take you to the Gov. site - floor area also needs to be considered

"If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation."

"If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials."

6) Log cabins come flat packed on 3 or 4 pallets so you would be able to carry it through the house - carefully as some bits could be 2.5 to 3.5m long!

7) Different roofing options available on Log Cabins or if purpose built block then you can have clay/concrete tiles.

8) Double glazing option is available on Log Cabin plus you might need some background heat and most important a dehumidifier.

9) Purpose built then maybe use builder who is doing concrete base - Log Cabin assembly definitely need some help as not a one man job plus need technical no how as well.

10) Different Log Cabins have different sized doors but think i'm going for a double door then you aren't restricted.

11) Not sure but i'm going to have background heat and dehumidifier as back up.

12) You might get a really crappy shed for 1k but think 4k is more realistic.

I'm looking at a BillyOh Dorset Log Cabin from garden buildings direct and that works out at around 2.5k for a fully specced one, 44mm walls plus double glazing, superior floor and roofing so with getting somebody in to build a base and help me assemble should come in well under 4k but then add on electrician, cable, junction box, sockets plus heating and dehumidifier then will probably end up at 4k.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Steve
 
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