Improving competition play

[VeeMonroe]

Having just competed in the Pinfest Classics and Main Tournament, and qualifying for precisely nothing (the two million on a Fish Tales was a particular lowlight), I wondered if any pinball wizards out there could give me any tips for improving.

I’ve read the PAPA Competition Strategy page (https://replayfoundation.org/papa/learning-center/player-guide/competition-strategy/).
Watched and practiced the PAPA technique videos (https://replayfoundation.org/papa/learning-center/player-guide/flipper-skills/#FlipperSkills) and Abe Flips (https://www.youtube.com/c/AbeFlips/).

I’ve also watched PAPA, etc. tutorial videos to learn rulesets, e.g. for Sorcerer

I have an Elwin and two of the rumoured ‘hardest‘ pins in pinball, which I all play daily, and I play a lot on site around London. Nothing seems to be helping (much).

So, I‘d like to know:

1. How do you get good scores on an unfamiliar pin even when you know the ruleset? e.g. How do you rapidly key in shots on an unfamiliar pin without losing the ball? I had a issue with the Flash Gordon, which I have at home, in the Classics tournament because *literally* none of the shots were in the same place. I have tried at home and it not possible on my FG to backhand the Wood Beast but, on the competition pin, that was literally the *only* way to make the shot. Very strange…

2. What are the best pins to practice different skills? I tend to play the Alien Poker at Pinball Republic a lot when I go there, because it seems a good way to practice making accurate sequenced shots. I had a period of practicing accurately making a sequence of simple timed shots using Lord of the Rings, but it bored the f**k out of me.

3. How do quickly work out how do something sensible on an unfamiliar pin when you don’t know the rules? My husband’s question, not mine, as I really struggled to find a tutorial video on some of the Classics competition pins, but got my best score on Stargazer! That said, I currently prefer Classics for competition play because I know good strategies usually boil down to ‘knock down all targets’ and ‘rip the spinner(s) when it’s lit’.

4. Are there any other strategies for practicing, links to videos or any other advice, that has really helped people improve their tournament play?

 

[David_Vi]

The simple answer is to play in more competitions. A lot of it is being in that situation under pressure, sometimes you may not realise it but that's is the case. It's down to experience.

Go to the Thurs nights at PBR or other events that come up.

It was Pinfest last year, I entered the comp just to have ago after encouragement from others and I got the bug. I've played in around 20 since.
Unfortunately this Pinfest was my worst performance since I started!
Last year I was around middle table and happy with that. This year I'm around 10 from the bottom. I only did four tickets and most of those were rushed in the sat night VIP session when I'd been drinking since midday

I rant and rave about fish tales and how I'd love it in a competition but I realise it's an incredibly hard game to play if you're a mediocre player and you're used to a different fish tales.
The one in the comp was brutal,(I'll blame flipper alignment being around 1mm different to mine meaning shots looked like they could be in the same area but they were actually dramatically different.

Most of the scores on it weren't good so it's not just us it was a hard one.

 

[VeeMonroe]

The simple answer is to play in more competitions. A lot of it is being in that situation under pressure, sometimes you may not realise it but that's is the case. It's down to experience.

Go to the Thurs nights at PBR or other events that come up.

It was Pinfest last year, I entered the comp just to have ago after encouragement from others and I got the bug. I've played in around 20 since.
Unfortunately this Pinfest was my worst performance since I started!
Last year I was around middle table and happy with that. This year I'm around 10 from the bottom. I only did four tickets and most of those were rushed in the sat night VIP session when I'd been drinking since midday

I did one ticket and expect I was in the bottom 10 - and I was sober, although taking a lot of Naproxen. I wouldn’t be surprised if I had been beaten by @jackpot’s kids (not a diss - they are very good players)

I rant and rave about fish tales and how I'd love it in a competition but I realise it's an incredibly hard game to play if you're a mediocre player and you're used to a different fish tales.
The one in the comp was brutal,(I'll blame flipper alignment being around 1mm different to mine meaning shots looked like they could be in the same area but they were actually dramatically different.

I thought it was the dark-green Titan rubbers, so they went straight on my wish list… But, yeah, FT hates you and if you brick shots, everything just ends up ricocheting about the slingshots and into a straight drain. It’s the reason no casual players in my household (especially my mum) want to play FT after the first game.

On my Fishy, I’ve taken to nudging from the front of the pin, to get the ball out of the slings, but I don’t remember if I didn’t try that on the competition Fishy (I haven’t found my game on the Twitch stream yet), or whether it just made it worse somehow.

Most of the scores on it weren't good so it's not just us it was a hard one.

Yes, Chris P told me he only 86 million on that FT, which is unprecedented for a Fishy with a great player!

 

[M4carp]

Didn’t someone on the forum lately say FT was easy

I have only played in one comp and I was not my normal self so if I ever do one again I'm going to do what I normally do while playing pins and that is to drink plenty of lager

 

[CHRIS B PINBALLS]

I am no comp player but I remember when I first met nick marshal he came to my house for something I had mm and taf in the line up and he absolutely smashed them but I watched him closely and he gave me some tips and my play quality instantly was better the trouble was I couldn’t get rid of him lol and he rang me the next day to apologise if he outstayed his welcome he hadn’t we both had a great morning
Another is learn the rule set on more games
Another way is strategic play I spoke to Phoebe on her great qualifying in the open and asked her why she played the em s over the modern games her answer was I don’t know the rules well enough on the newer games so play the em s where I have as good chance as anyone

 

[Mfresh]

I asked for tips to play better in competitions from Bowen Kerins, Roger Sharpe, Josh Sharpe, Cayle George and several other of the world’s top competitors and this is what they told me:

Play better! Pinball tips from the world’s top competitors | Pavlov Pinball

pavlovpinball.com

 

[VeeMonroe]

I asked for tips to play better in competitions from Bowen Kerins, Roger Sharpe, Josh Sharpe, Cayle George and several other of the world’s top competitors and this is what they told me:

Play better! Pinball tips from the world’s top competitors | Pavlov Pinball

pavlovpinball.com

You are a I’m probably going to take your Five Second Game guides to Pinball Republic, and see how I do!

How to score big on games you’ve never played before | Pavlov Pinball

pavlovpinball.com

 

[new forest pinball]

In my opinion. (FWIW) it can simply be broken down into 5 main components......
1) Skill. - This can be accelerated by observing different players techniques, but mainly comes from step 2
2) Practice, practice, practice........ on a varied selection of machines from all era’s. (E.M. DMD S.S. Moderns)
3) Experience. No short cut for this one. Many of the top U.K. players have been playing pinball virtually as soon as they were tall enough to see the playfield. (I.E. 40 plus years).
4) Confidence. This is the biggie. One secret to confidence is focus on the machine you are playing not the players! Or else you are doomed.
5) Attitude. Keep a calm, friendly and fun attitude. Balancing it carefully with a healthy competitive spirit.....
Still regretting missing out on the pinfest comps particularly the classics....
Keef....

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Didn’t someone on the forum lately say FT was easy

I have only played in one comp and I was not my normal self so if I ever do one again I'm going to do what I normally do while playing pins and that is to drink plenty of lager

yep but James fixed it and did an epic job of fixing it

I heard from many yada yada fish tales only to see it remove their soul, spine and will to live. After a few practise games on it during Qualifying I firmly put it in the category of avoid like the plague.

 

[VeeMonroe]

3) Experience. No short cut for this one. Many of the top U.K. players have been playing pinball virtually as soon as they were tall enough to see the playfield. (I.E. 40 plus years).

Yeah. It's possible this is where the problem lies. I played my first full-sized pinball machine in... July 2021.

I’ve got a 31 month old who has just started using the flippers though… so there’s hope for him

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Rule number 1 - don't put yourself under pressure.
Rule number 2 - make sure you plan your tournament.
Ruls number 3 - enjoy it, aim to play your best and if that means you win, great, if it doesn't you still played your best.

The only way to get better is to play and play and play. Don't generate pressure for yourself and make sure you have a few practise games until you find one you feel comfortable with. You don't need to know _ALL_ the rules you need to know a path on a game that you are comfortable with, and on some games two paths. Build relationships, so you can ask folks who score well "what Strat they used ? and how does it play"
Study the scores on each game - going into my practise games of Fish tales I asked matt how it played, tilt tight and flippers bouncey - studying the scores before playing told me that it was brutal:

Ticket - 5 - Matt''s game but he gets 15M on it. alarm bells



Then tickets 3, 6 and 9 super low scores for fish tales, photon torpedos' are armed, phaser banks charging and shields up - this game is ugly.




in comparison; Godzilla - the game played very liberally, first hint was the number of tickets punched with GZ on it early, not many, so long games - high scoring games, At the end 117 tickets stamped with GZ on it compared to 176 on Fish Tales? (Pulls down the sun visor - are we learning yet?).

Lets take a look at the early tickets;



As I know Matt well and he is a great player but tends to not know the rules so well, seeing this tells me ok , GZ is in, Further confirmed by this:



in 5 early tickets people have put a strong score on the game and Craig manages to beat a billion very early. Ah but its a Stern Neil I hear some bozo (Ian?) at the back say. Lets say the Tilt on this game was so forgiving you could hoover the room with it.

So lets just double check. Lets take a look at JP2





The low tickets and strange scores tell me this game plays hard, as it turns out not quite correct, a quick chat with Greg and Craig tell me that the truck doesn't spin so well, so one of the best strategies for putting points on this game is out the window, second to that after watching a few folks play, there is no TREX multi ball. So Chaos is the only multi ball chance unless you are brave with raptor (which actually wasn't so bad as it was backhand able), so for me hey, we're going dinosaur hunting, I really enjoyed playing JP2, it was about accuracy, taking your time and maximising CHAOS and x2 and if you can a decent Pteradondon.

B66 scores also tell me that its a tough game, not so many people playing it early doors, so I watch the game and there are two things I see:

1: Starting villain modes has been set to hard or extra hard, which limits villain multi ball hugely (you can only start it from within a mode) but then the backup plan is foiled by;
2: Constant rejects on the crucially important shot to mini villains means no Shane or freeze strategy. Which means this game is ugly, also turns out the tilt is super tight.

Then take a look at LW3 - that tells me right away its a turd. So Joker Poker I know is tough to get a big score on and I'm not going to do it, Eight ball you might as well wear a blindfold playing. So Black Jack, a nice Bally is a back up. Playing it it looks nice and Phoebe has put a decent score on it. Turtles is just too unpredictable and even though the scores are low I know from experience of playing this at INDISC that its not going to be a game to pick

Some how I managed to pull through but made it harder for myself by playing a game whilst tired and biffing an epic card.

Cheers,
Neil.

 

[Wayne J]

Machine choice is not necessarily as important as is being made out.

Yes GZ was playing easier/longer, but that just meant you had to getter a significantly higher score to beat other players.
Likewise with FT, you didn't need a score in the 100s of millions, 60/70 million was plenty good enough.

Situational awareness of game scoring is the most important, along with being able to adapt.

Note Andys game on FT against David. He looked at how many points he needed to win. Safe strategy ramp, ramp, ramp, Monster Fish. 4 shots for maximum pts. Had he needed 300mil, that wouldn't have been the right strategy.

Knowing the rules IN DEPTH can help significantly as well. JP2 did have TRex MB enabled throughout the whole weekend. I got it during my qualifying game. There is also Raptor MB - so not just Chaos to go for. Again, it's all about situational awareness.

What score you know you need to aim for should change your strategy, that comes from competition experience.

 

[OTRawrior]

As Wayne says, FT is a classic good example of knowing a couple of strategies. If the scores are big, you need multiball and super jackpots. If not, you can probably get several tens of millions punching ramps for monster fish. If the scores are really crap, maybe just go for video mode!


(No, I didn't manage to put any of this in practice across three games )

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Machine choice is not necessarily as important as is being made out.

of course it is. If you choose a machine that you are poor at playing then you've got no chance.

Yes GZ was playing easier/longer, but that just meant you had to getter a significantly higher score to beat other players.

Its all relative. GZ being as easy as it was meant you had way more chances to get it right, you could move the game, there was a healthy ball save, whilst the best players can also benefit from that they typically don't have to.

Likewise with FT, you didn't need a score in the 100s of millions, 60/70 million was plenty good enough.

Yes indeed, because it was brutal. The lowest top 100 score for FT in the never drains universe start at 200M.

Situational awareness of game scoring is the most important, along with being able to adapt.

Note Andys game on FT against David. He looked at how many points he needed to win. Safe strategy ramp, ramp, ramp, Monster Fish. 4 shots for maximum pts. Had he needed 300mil, that wouldn't have been the right strategy.

I agree, but if you don't know how much you need to win because you aren't player 2 you need to ensure you give it the best margin you can.

Knowing the rules IN DEPTH can help significantly as well. JP2 did have TRex MB enabled throughout the whole weekend. I got it during my qualifying game. There is also Raptor MB - so not just Chaos to go for. Again, it's all about situational awareness.

What score you know you need to aim for should change your strategy, that comes from competition experience.

in finals if you know thats the score thats going to win I agree, but if you are in Qualifying or player 1 in a 4 player game you simply don't know and should execute the strategy you are most comfortable you can deliver.

 

[David_Vi]

Can I ask how you made FT so brutal? James said he put the lightning flippers on and aligned them like he usually does, which is different to me (I use a cocktail stick without rubber on and adjust to ensure they're level and there's no hop, while James aligns to ball guides).

Other than the flippers being aligned different to mine I couldn't tell what else was making it so hard.
Usually you can adjust to different flipper alignment but on FT it seems so much harder with more margin for error.
I have had mine at various alignments and the game at 6.0-7.0 for weeks at a time to find the sweet spot.

While on the subject of FT, it seemed video mode was a valid strategy, while usually it isn't. I got it once and had it ready then drained another time. If I'd have got it I'd have jumped up dramatically considering the low scores.
Was Big score in video mode off? I've seen in other streams there's been no big score come up and I've never found an option for this as I find it can be a bit overpowered.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

yup video mode was definitely a valid Strat - Matt used it to beat Craig -

on the game - when I played it there is a slight hop and the flippers are a nudge high from what I think you'd expect them to be - that made the wider shots much tougher.

Cheers,
Neil.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Can I ask how you made FT so brutal? James said he put the lightning flippers on and aligned them like he usually does, which is different to me (I use a cocktail stick without rubber on and adjust to ensure they're level and there's no hop, while James aligns to ball guides).

I'd like to know that too. My husband (Jon) has forbidden me from trying to make our FT that hard. However, I really like having a pin where I can work towards achieving anything at all. The idea is that, once I've mastered a pin that hard, every other pin should feel easy.

I was guessing the rubbers, as they seemed more springy than my Perfect Plays (and my Perfect Plays are more bouncy than non-silicone rubbers). But lots of pins have Titan rubbers.

 

[Wayne J]

By far the biggest factor in regard to FT difficulty was the rubbers on the inlane/outlane posts.
They seemed quite new and larger than I use normally on my machines. (That's not to say better or worse, just different)
The only adjustment I made was to fully open the post above the outlane.

This meant that the ball was less likely to go straight down the inlane (or outlane) and bounce around, with the post being fully open it was always likely to go down the outlane.
I actually commented on stream about this, saying how hard it was to be able to judge the nudge in Andy and David's game. Then Craig stepped up and was able to save it a couple of times in his match against Matt (althoughly ultimately to no avail).

 

[Wayne J]

in finals if you know thats the score thats going to win I agree, but if you are in Qualifying or player 1 in a 4 player game you simply don't know and should execute the strategy you are most comfortable you can deliver

You may not know the exact score you need, but you can see all of the scores recorded in qualifying from the website, so you have a ball park figure to go for.

EG FT a score over 50 mil was decent, so I played for that. During MB I focused on captive ball and ramps, rather than jackpots. Working towards monster fish and video mode, or even rock the boat.
Due to the short balltimes and the outlanes swallowing balls, it meant MBs especially were likely to be much shorter. Plus if you don't hit a JP in MB the lock drop target remains down when you try and build towards your next MB.
Little nuances are only picked up with experience.

 

[Jackpot]

@VeeMonroe - it is tough to compare your 1 ticket and final placing against everyone elses, as most people had more than one go. Nearly everyone had at least one 'bad' ticket and the final qualifying rankings are based on your best ticket only, so if you had been able to play more tickets it is very likely you would have finished higher. You also would have benefitted a lot from knowing how the tables were playing when you played it the next time.

One thing you should be happy with is beating your husband, who I know is a good and improving player from his recent PBR scores. With his four tickets vs your one, you did a nice job finishing higher even though I know he played below his normal level. I'd echo what some of the others have said - playing more competitive games helps. Do come down to PBR once in a while on a Thursday and join in if you can - even if you have to take turns coming while someone watches the kids, you'll certainly start to improve. Also one thing about competitive play - it is more important to raise your average standard of play (in most competitions) - so developing more consistency/getting better scores on average I'd argue is more important than beating your best ever scores.

If you have 2 bad balls on a game at home don't quit the game or stop caring - challenge yourself to turn that bad game into a reasonable or good one. Much easier said than done - especially in a competitive format. But this can make all the difference (and something I'm still working on).

Good luck with it - also watching other more experienced players play live in a matchplay competition helps a lot. Even if you think there is no point you entering, give it a go sometime - you will learn a lot which will help you improve.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

You may not know the exact score you need, but you can see all of the scores recorded in qualifying from the website, so you have a ball park figure to go for.

EG FT a score over 50 mil was decent, so I played for that. During MB I focused on captive ball and ramps, rather than jackpots. Working towards monster fish and video mode, or even rock the boat.
Due to the short balltimes and the outlanes swallowing balls, it meant MBs especially were likely to be much shorter. Plus if you don't hit a JP in MB the lock drop target remains down when you try and build towards your next MB.
Little nuances are only picked up with experience.

Yes agree - my point above, but have seen top players get to grips with what was originally thought to be a brutal game and adapting, GOTG day 1 of UK Open 2019 nobody could get anything on it but by finals everyone wanted to pick it until its laucher died. Also saw it at INDISC on GZ too last year.

 

[Wayne J]

Yes agree - my point above, but have seen top players get to grips with what was originally thought to be a brutal game and adapting, GOTG day 1 of UK Open 2019 nobody could get anything on it but by finals everyone wanted to pick it until its laucher died. Also saw it at INDISC on GZ too last year.

Maybe we need to extend Pinfest by a day next year, to allow for this progression?

(Joking, or am I?)

 

[Paul R Owen]

Can I ask how you made FT so brutal? James said he put the lightning flippers on and aligned them like he usually does, which is different to me (I use a cocktail stick without rubber on and adjust to ensure they're level and there's no hop, while James aligns to ball guides).

Other than the flippers being aligned different to mine I couldn't tell what else was making it so hard.
Usually you can adjust to different flipper alignment but on FT it seems so much harder with more margin for error.
I have had mine at various alignments and the game at 6.0-7.0 for weeks at a time to find the sweet spot.

While on the subject of FT, it seemed video mode was a valid strategy, while usually it isn't. I got it once and had it ready then drained another time. If I'd have got it I'd have jumped up dramatically considering the low scores.
Was Big score in video mode off? I've seen in other streams there's been no big score come up and I've never found an option for this as I find it can be a bit overpowered.

My normal strategy is get the Fast Cast shot. This seemed to be almost impossible, think I managed it once in 3 games. Probably down to unusual flipper angle.

 

[MajesticPinball]

Apologies to those who dislike how I align flippers... I'd say the solution is to just play better as I hate saggy flippers

 

[MajesticPinball]

@Matt Vince what's your opinion on the flipper alignment on that FT by the way? I can always change them if it's causing issues?

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Apologies to those who dislike how I align flippers... I'd say the solution is to just play better as I hate saggy flippers

no need to apologise mate It helped me hugely in the finals.

 

[Buddinblack]

My tuppence again worth for what it’s worth… practice on a machine before hand if you can. Try and hit a shot but take note of where exactly on the flipper you hit it.

If you didn’t make it (late or early) then adjust and repeat til you get that one shot nailed down or as close to nailed down as you can. If you can get two shots you can hit reasonable well (one for each flipper) you can keep the ball in play for a reasonable amount of time.

If your struggling with a particular shot, avoid it!

Of course this is great until you play fishtales, in that case just pray to the pinball gods for leniency!!

 

[David_Vi]

What are the rubbers on FT? It was very bouncey!

My normal strategy is get the Fast Cast shot. This seemed to be almost impossible, think I managed it once in 3 games. Probably down to unusual flipper angle.

Oddly I managed 2 or 3 fast casts in a row. But couldn't do anything with the multiball

 

[Wayne J]

Apologies to those who dislike how I align flippers... I'd say the solution is to just play better as I hate saggy flippers

I'd say that the flippers should always be aligned the way that the designer intended. The vast majority are for the tips of the flippers to be aligned with the dots punched in the playfield. I believe it is only Gomez who has said that his machines have the flippers aligned so they run level with the inlane guides.

By setting flippers up based on 'personal preference' it can make shots more difficult/challenging than the designer intended, or leave the wider shots with less power to make ramps, or the ball too easy/hard to trap, backhanded shots unavailable etc. etc. (It's also not ideal when also coupled with non-standard lightning flippers)

FWIW I don't think that this was the case here whatsoever. The game was perfectly capable of hitting both orbits without issue.

Genesis played beautifully as well.
Thanks for bringing all of your games, even if you weren't able to convince me to love Gottliebs!

 

[windoesnot]

Agree on how well Genesis played, it absolutely was fit for purpose @MajesticPinball