House Buying - Bad Survey

[DRD]

All - after any wisdom that people may have here.

I have found an old terraced house to buy that was extensively knocked around in 1990. It has no parking or garden, but its oddball design suits us as a second home

The selling particulars/ estate agent made no reference to the extent of work required. It seemed tidy, well decorated and perfectly pleasant inside bar some old, minor ceiling staining caused by leaking chimneys/ skylights.

The survey:

Pitched roof needs replacing and has porous asbestos tiles on. Currently leaking at the chimney stacks as flashing has perished.
Flat roof over extension needs replacing
1990s aluminium dbl glazing had wooden surrounds that are now rotten/ patio door and some windows do not close properly etc
Balcony needs resurfacing but not currently leaking
As its on a hilly site the scaffolding will be expensive
Conservation area/ building control will be all over it

The surveyor estimated 85k of work

I know many people would walk away, but we live in an old house so aren't afraid of this sort of stuff.

To say we want 85k off seems aggressive to me. It is not being sold as a house with brand new roof, posh windows, modern skylights, immaculate balcony etc etc If we did all this work it would make the house much more desirable to anyone

Is 50k off a sensible, fair proposal ?

Ta

 

[MarkS]

FWIW I would pay an experienced builder to go around with you for an hour checking the house and the specific issues raised in the survey. The builder will likely give you a much better idea of what is and isn't an issue. We have been told flat roofs were perished and needed replacing that were actually 100% healthy, and equally we've had surveyors who have missed significant damp, leaking windows, etc.

Having a price of £85k for repairs in the survey is great for you as the buyer - I don't see anything wrong with asking for that much off... it's not a random amount, you have professional advice to justify it. But see what a builder says... if he says you're looking at over £100k, then even £85k off might not be good. Equally if he says it won't even cost you £50k, then you know (and can keep seccret) that you have that wiggle room on negotiations. It also depends on the value of the property that you had agreed on - if it's £170k then £85k off is huge, if it's £2.1m then not so much

PS. Don't forward them the entire survey as you've paid for that, just give them a summary of its findings/costings. Don't forget your own time and hassle in this, and any other potential buyer will find the same issues at the point of survey (or the seller will need to disclose them all up front and adjust his price anyway).

 

[cooldan]

Personally I would look at the history of how long it has been on the market and try to do some digging as to how desperate they are to sell. Then remember they are not your friends and you owe them nothing. Can you get an independent valuation, or does the survey count as that? The seller is probably aware of all these problems and has already factored them into the price tbh but if you don’t ask you don’t get.

If you are the one that says the first number, then you are in a weaker position. The agent works for the seller so they are not your friend.

If I were them, and you asked for 85 off, I would tell you to take a running jump. Or if I was desperate I might try to negotiate, and offer 10 off. We’d end up settling probably 15-20K off the agreed sale price. But if you said 50 straight off the bat, maybe we’d end up somewhere else.

Get an electrician survey and a gas survey. They will also recommend work. Add them all together before you act. Let them know you had a disappointing survey and are taking advice, just don’t say it’s from a bunch of nerds on a pinball forum. Remember you are in a strong position as a cash buyer, and they need you more than you need them. If you can’t get a substantial discount then you should go find some other options.

 

[Fantazia2]

I would says what is the Value of the property at current sale price vs value of the property after the recommended 85k of work is done.

Is the 85k of work worst case scenario cost or could it be done for less?

Just because a survey says that it needs 85K of work done doesn't mean you can offer 85k less than current asking price, also you've not really given any info to say if 50k off would be a reasonable offer, it could already be up for sale for a price adjusted for the amount of work needing doing, or adjusted for an amount the seller has been quoted for doing the repair work and not necessarily the same 85k quoted.

 

[cooldan]

I told you to go for the place in Cronkyvoddy

 

[Asiapinball]

I run a company that sells 300-400 properties a year many of which are similar condition to what you describe.

None of what has come back on your survey surprises me; it's all regular stuff for older houses that would have been visible on your viewing. By your comments and the fact that you are not scared by the work on older houses and your clear understanding of what conservation areas / additional cost due to poor accessibility you don't seem to be a novice in this area.

Today's surveyors list everything they can possibly find and often overestimate costs. What else would they do in order to cover their backs and avoid claims on their PI cover?

The big question to ask is whether the property was realistically priced and whether your offer was realistic. Estate agents are usually realistic in recommending asking prices but will take instruction from a seller at a higher asking price if the seller insists. Maybe the seller was unrealistic and you were naive in costs of repair when agreeing your offer?

We know what our properties are and what the costs are and price accordingly. We often get buyers reducing offers following their surveys - many asking for the full cost of works recommended to be deducted from their original offer price. We reject almost all outright and where we do give an allowance its usually for £5-£10K max on something genuinely unexpected (by both parties).

I would recommend you work out what you would now be willing to pay and go back with a revised offer, telling them you remain very keen but without going into too much detail. If you tell them you need money off because the windows and roof need replacing you will then just look like a naive buyer. And if they don;t accept your revised offer, just walk. And go back quickly so that the seller can get on with remarketing of necessary. If it then remains on the market and unsold for a few months you can then go back and reoffer and you will be taken seriously.

 

[DRD]

Thanks all for the advice.

The estate told me that this bad news was a total surprise. Superficially, this place is really tidy inside. Very well decorated. A decent architect was clearly involved with the remodelling/ extension 30 years ago as it was very cleverly done. It looks cared for internally. So he may well be being straight with me. It has been on the market for months as it has an unusual open plan layout that would probably rule out kids and or the elderley. Its been designed as a holiday home.

I have not had a RICS survey yet. I went straight to the type of specialist builder the RICS guys recommend when they see something requiring more investigation. He took all manner of photos, readings, went in roof, went on roof, did loads of relative humidity and absolute humidity readings, used a thermal camera .....

and as @cooldan knows, there is no pub in Cronkyvoddy so its a non starter !!!

 

[Fantazia2]

From the buyers side I remember my friend selling his house years ago and the survey came back that the roof tiles may/did contain asbestos but was in perfect order, buyer wanted the price of a full replacement roof knocking off the selling price, buyer was politely told where to go.

 

[DRD]

This is exactly what I am trying to avoid ^^^^^^, and why I want to put a fair proposal forward. Even though this is seemingly new news, it's too easy to just say roof costs x, give me x off. As at the end of it you have a roof that will last say [40] years before trouble whereas on average you might get [10] years out of an old roof on an old house before you get trouble.

 

[johnwhitfield]

Not totally convinced there’s such a thing as a “fair” proposal when it comes to property.
There’s so many horror stories out there. I don’t think it’s so much the money involved as the emotional attachment.

I can spend months debating with myself about which £30 product I should buy and then put in offers for a building I’ve had less than 30 mins to look around.

FOMO plays a huge role if you’re limited to one location. It’s easy to overpay on paper to achieve what the heart wants.

Hope you manage to work out something that lets you go ahead.