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Gottlieb rack a ball 1962 problems

John Beckenham

John Beckenham

Site Supporter
5Years
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
31
Location
Somerset
Need some help with Gottlieb Rack a a Ball 1962.....Friend gave me this machine to sort out for him, it had not worked for many years, usual gummed up with dry grease and dirt, I have it all cleaned and functioning again now, I have checked around all swithes to see they make and break correctly and all seems good, but can get it to start properly (first time working on a Gottlieb)...there are a few issues...to start with:- when pressing the game button on door, lights come on, reset banks operate but then the 0 - 9 unit in the back box solenoid remains held in so does a relay connected with it( left relay under bell in pic), it should be a switch not zeroing, but cant find any so far, if I pull the base board to Back box long pin connecter, the 0-9 unit solenoid stops and can play a game but only basic of course, there is no wire diagram with it so I need to solve these two first. Then I need to tackle 2 other probs:- when the ball passes throo the roll overs(12 of) it should fire 1 ball into the rack, but it fires even when the rollover has been used the 1 st time and its light has gone out, and the other prob is apart from the 2 bottom slings, the other 6 do not have power. Sorry for that lot, any ideas please?Rack a ball back box.jpg
 
Hiya

Never worked on a Gotllieb, but had similar issues on Bally, is there a hold coil anywhere that should be holding, but too weak?
 
Slings without power? That sounds like the black cable disconected somewhere. If the rollovers add a ball all the time check the bank relay under the playfield. And I cant understand what was the issue with the reseting. Can you take a video? that will help.
 
Thanks for your replies chaps.....latest..I discovered some green corrosion down some tabs on the back of one of the score reels, clean off and behaving better, the rollovers now only fire a ball into the rack when a ball passes throo a lit roller, great. So still problems:- when starting a game the start sequence goes ok until the score reels reach 000 then the 0 - 9 unit(top left in back box picture) and its relay lock on (this is just under the 0 - 9 unit to the left)there is no label on the relay but looks like it is the 5 point relay in other pictures(have to pull the long connector off in B.Box to stop the noise) so something 5 pts is energising this relay but cannot see anything causing it, I need to find out which targets score 5 pts as there must be a switch causing the problem.
The other problem is (Slings) sorry I have missled you on this, I dont know the proper name for these, but in picture of playfield around the top area are 4 long rubbers which have a leaf switch behind and these are dead, there are 2 more at the back of the blue and red 50 pt. targets half way down also dead...there will be on the same curcuit I guess but where are they fed from? What I will do is put the meter on continuaty from these switches and search all throo with the other prong and try get a hit.
If I carefully connect the long power connector in back box such that only the back box lights come on, I can see that all the lights work as they should..tilt,game over ect.

So what is causing the 0-9 unit and its relay to lock on?
and where is the feed to the rubber leaf switches coming from?image-8.jpg
 
Ok. Those "slings" on the top, they score 1, so if your 0-9 (1 relay) is stucked, is that the cause because this contacts are not scoring. Should be a 1 contact somewhere making a permanent contact. Most of the time is a contact of the playfield but not easy to spot.
Be aware of this type misadjusted contact: The contact leafs could look separated but the middle thicker leaf could be in wrong position. Sorry for my bad english. I hope you could understand.
gtbswbad.jpg
 
Geofflove said:
Have you got a schematic For this? Be easy to see the possible culprits from that.
Click to expand...
No I dont have a wire diagram, the owner is aware, can only get one one fro Pinball Resource USA at some expence. Hope to solve any problems without.
 
Chilpin said:
Ok. Those "slings" on the top, they score 1, so if your 0-9 (1 relay) is stucked, is that the cause because this contacts are not scoring. Should be a 1 contact somewhere making a permanent contact. Most of the time is a contact of the playfield but not easy to spot.
Be aware of this type misadjusted contact: The contact leafs could look separated but the middle thicker leaf could be in wrong position. Sorry for my bad english. I hope you could understand.
View attachment 199474
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, I will have look at these tomorrow, I may unsolder each one as it has to be in this area, I have spent 4 hours going throo the game looking for shorts, checking the score reels and playfield switches, and all else looks good. Get back soon, many thanks.
 
Thanks chilpin, checked those leaf switches and found the one behind the red target was out of adjustment, all working perfectly. Thanks to all.👍
 
Yes thanks, its a nice game, not mine, Im fixing it for a friend, he bought in London about 1980, there was a pinball shop in Islington and the shop had an old herse to transport the machines. Anyway, I like the workings on it, better quality than others, I never liked the small flippers, straight down the middle too much. I guess you have this one...I am now playing it to check for scoring problems...so it goes crazy sometimes ....when the ball travels throo the lit roll overs I think it should fire a ball into the rack, but this one also fires a ball at times when ball pass throo an unlit roll over and when it bounces off the jets, might be a sensitive switch, I think that is the only problem to fix. If you know where I can look to sort this it would helpfull please. I want to connect a wire from the start button on the front door to energise the number of games reel in back box, but there is not a coin relay on this game(Im use to Bally/Williams), do you know what energises the game reel please.
 
Hi, I dont have this game, and I think I never played this game before. But I have fixed hundreds of this old gottlieb in my life, so I know them really well.
Yeah, if a bumper added a ball, probably is a sensitive switch in one of the rollovers.
But In case a rollover add a ball all the time (lighted or not), check the bank of relays just under the playfield. There is a small bank that control the light on/off of the rollovers and the add or not add a ball to the rack.
And for the games.. . Is very easy to set this games to free play. So you dont need to add a cable, just play without any coin or credit, just hitting the start button.
"adjust the smaller contact "zero" position switch (red arrow)
closest to the backglass permanently closed for free play. "
gtbfree1.jpg
 
Thanks, adjusted the rollovers and only fire a ball into the rack when lit. Working on the 0-9 unit now, noticed the jet bumper lights which alternate are out of adjustment, lighting up then going out, looked at the rachet on back and can see the cog doesnt click into place, so the contacts on the back are slightly out of place. Must say this is very satisfying bringing these back to life, (ive had a few half dead Bally/Williams in the past) the owner will be pleased with this.
Do you still dable with Gottliebs? parts are difficult to find in uk, but there is a chap in the Crewe area has quite a lot. Thats all for tonight, will carry on in a couple of days.
 
The contact position could be adjusted with the screws of the plate. Or if every jump is too much (rarely happens) could be adjusted moving the coil/stop position. Now I only fix gottlieb when someone send me his machine to fix or call me for a service or if I buy and old nonworking machine and restore it/fix it for selling after playing a while.
 
Your 0-9 unit needs to be cleaned and, better still, be overhauled with a new Spring kit. The Brown bakelite plate is, as has been mentioned , adjustable, ideally so the screws are centre to their fixing hole. The little brass snowshoes that contact onto the brass rivers should ideally sit bang centre onto the rivers after each step. If you take a picture of the unit for reference and remove it to clean the snowshoes and rivets ( use 2000 grit paper or something very fine) and then put a tiny smear of contact grease afterward on the rivets so the shoes glide over . That should get it working 100 percent correct. If however you cannot get the snowshoes to align correctly after adjusting then some Gottliebs dont have a step on the drive shaft ( the bit the bakelite part screws onto) so if you look at the aluminium 3 pronged saddle it sits on, you'll see if there is a step or if it's completely round. If its round, then that saddle can adjust but loosening the 2 or 3 grub screws with an Allen key to rotate it a little and that will cure it.

One other thing, if you do adjust that saddle, make sure that it doesn't sit any lower than it is on the shaft because if you do, you will make the snowshoes get too close to the brass rivets which wears them out. If they are scored, then they might be too tight to start with!

As for free-play, yes, you can bend that switch closed but I prefer to just solder a link wire across its 2 switch terminals so the machine always 'thinks' there is credit available.

Heres a link all about steppers which should help you: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

Doug.
 
Last edited:
Doug said:
Your 0-9 unit needs to be cleaned and, better still, be overhauled with a new Spring kit. The Brown bakelite plate is, as has been mentioned , adjustable, ideally so the screws are centre to their fixing hole. The little brass snowshoes that contact onto the brass rivers should ideally sit bang centre onto the rivers after each step. If you take a picture of the unit for reference and remove it to clean the snowshoes and rivets ( use 2000 grit paper or something very fine) and then put a tiny smear of contact grease afterward on the rivets so the shoes glide over . That should get it working 100 percent correct. If however you cannot get the snowshoes to align correctly after adjusting then some Gottliebs dont have a step on the drive shaft ( the bit the bakelite part screws onto) so if you look at the aluminium 3 pronged saddle it sits on, you'll see if there is a step or if it's completely round. If its round, then that saddle can adjust but loosening the 2 or 3 grub screws with an Allen key to rotate it a little and that will cure it.

One other thing, if you do adjust that saddle, make sure that it doesn't sit any lower than it is on the shaft because if you do, you will make the snowshoes get too close to the brass rivets which wears them out. If they are scored, then they might be too tight to start with!

As for free-play, yes, you can bend that switch closed but I prefer to just solder a link wire across its 2 switch terminals so the machine always 'thinks' there is credit available.

Heres a link all about steppers which should help you: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

Doug.
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks I will strip it down again, I had cleaaned to bakalit and snow shoes, I didnt notice at first the the bakalit not completeing each move, I tried the solenoid adjustment but its the arm stop that is preventing the correct movement, but the screws are seazed, never been touched, tried plus gas but stil seazed so will remove and get it on the bench and see what can be done, its very easy to shear these off if not carefull. Thanks about the free play, I'll do as you say for that. Let you know how it goes, be Sunday now till I can get on with it.
Many thanks
 
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