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Bally Radical pinball

Steve Arnold

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10 Years
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
433
Hi all! Just got this out of storage for 8 years!! All powers up ok and display. Game plays but no flippers. All other solanoids work. Googled and it said check tp5 on top right boards for 43V. I can’t find tp5. Can anyone point me to this or has any idea why no flippers are working? Checked F4 and all ok.

Thanks

Steve
 
Thanks for the reply. I can check that tomorrow. I have Googled some more and will check for 50v on the coil. Also order some bridge rectifiers for stock.

Thanks
 
I couldn’t see any under playfield fuses.
Checked voltages at flipper clips and all have 50-70v present. Shorter centre lug to ground but coils wouldn’t fire.
Also can’t hear the relay click.
Where should I look next please?

Thanks
 
I couldn’t see any under playfield fuses.
Checked voltages at flipper clips and all have 50-70v present. Shorter centre lug to ground but coils wouldn’t fire.
Also can’t hear the relay click.
Where should I look next please?

Thanks
Apologies if you have already done this, but you can check what resistance you get for each of the coils, whilst the machine is off. You would do this to prove they aren't shorted and returning 0 ohms.

Assuming the flippers have three lugs, you should have two readings on each coil, one for the main coil and one for hold coil.
 
Steve,

The flipper relay makes/breaks the return circuit from the flipper coils and buttons, so if it isn't On the flippers won't work. The relay doesn't pulse each time a flipper operates, it turns on when a game starts (or when going into diagnostics) and remains on until the game ends, exiting diagnostics or is tilted.

May I ask what 'paperwork' g**gle is/was directing you to?. That mention of 43v makes me wonder if it thinks you mean the older Skateball, which would have the 'Bally' solenoid driver/voltage reg. board top right. As an 11C game, the board top right in the backbox of Radical is the power supply for the logic and displays, with no concern about the solenoids. The solenoid power rails are produced and fused by the 'Aux Power' board below that, with a relay and lines of large diodes. This is not the flipper relay, though.

You mention grounding the centre terminal of a flipper coil to check; if the power feed and the coil (the power winding, anyway) were okay, it should've pulled-in. Despite seeing voltage at the coil, I'd check the fuses on that Aux Power board - have a look at the manual for Radical on ipdb. org. (which turns out to be rather truncated, so I looked at Earthshaker as an alternative).

But if the flipper relay on the main Cpu board isn't working, bear in mind that it doesn't operate on the solenoid power, but the 5v power. If you're careful, the relay can be energised manually; grounding the tail-end of the winding should switch it On. The handiest point to do this is the plain end of the diode, D3, alongside the relay, which is connected across the relay winding.
 
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Thanks for the informative reply Jay. I will find the document I googled and try to paste on here. I will also try grounding the relay like you mention. If I do this shout I hear it click and a coil will operate if I press the flipper button? All the other solonoids operate just not the 4 flippers. I will take a look over the weekend and report back.

Thanks all for he help and advice
 
The flipper relay controls whether or not the flippers operate whenever the machine is On, by breaking the coils' return to ground. Out of play with the relay off, the buttons can be pressed all day long without effect, in most cases*. With the relay on, then provided that the coils have a power feed pressing a button completes a final section of the circuit and the flipper(s) pull in. There should be an audible click as the relay switches on.

* an exception is Pin-Bot; due to its solenoid assignment, the flipper relay does switch on at a particular point of the attract mode. If a button is pressed at the time, the flipper will kick just once before the relay turns off (the program sees the 'Lane Change' switch and reacts by cutting off the relay)
 
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Hi, I have tried shorting D3 next to the relay and I don’t hear any click. Pressing flipper button still does nothing with the diode grounded on the plain side. Could it be the drive transistor failed? If so any idea which one I should replace? Will download a manual later for the game as I don’t have one.

Thanks for the help.
 
Update!!
Relay is clicking now and I have very weak bottom flippers. Top 2 not working. Will try cleaning contacts again and see what happens.
 
A tip about finding the schematics; the ipdb listing for Radical doesn't have much of them with the link marked 'Manual', so try looking at similar age games. I chose Earthshaker.

"Hi, I have tried shorting D3 next to the relay and I don’t hear any click. Pressing flipper button still does nothing with the diode grounded on the plain side. Could it be the drive transistor failed?"
  • The basic technique of grounding the return side of a solenoid load (the flipper relay in this case) by-passes the usual control device(s), so it proves nothing directly about them. It only shows if the load/relay itself works, as it seems to have done. If the relay had worked when jumpered but not in play or diagnostic, then I'd suspect the circuitry controlling the relay. If it hadn't worked even when jumpered, then it wouldn't in any circumstance, again showing nothing about the driver circuit.

Though it seems to have cleared up now, the flipper relay isn't controlled by a large metal-framed transistor as with other solenoids. It's simply a small black plastic-bodied device, a 2N4401 (or maybe its opposite polarity equivalent 4403). And there isn't a dedicated line just for switching the relay; it's basically an addition at the end of the circuitry that enables/disables what Williams used to call 'Special Solenoids', meaning bumpers and slingshots. The wiring for the flipper circuits travels from Aux Power to playfield, then the cabinet buttons and Cpu board through quite a few connectors, including the Interconnect board below the Cpu board.

Work didn't have Bally System 11 machines, but I expect they follow the Williams practice of the button switching two flippers using three contact blades, rather than the older Bally method of a lower flipper switching an upper one. You'll see by looking at the button contacts, or if the lower flippers only have their own End of Stroke switches, with capacitors attached.

I'd like to blame that 'Williams brand only' policy for the fact that it's only checking with ipdb which has taught me that the prototypes had a ball popper exiting onto the left-hand ramp, fed by a subway from somewhere top centre. Eliminated for production, though the flyer even shows a ball flying through the wireform.

One thing in the manual for Radical; the basic drawing showing parts under the playfield has the disliked Bally 'linear' slingshots from the early 80's, while the de**iled assembly drawings show the regular Williams pivot-type fittings.
 
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