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advice please on my first 'shopping'

cooldan

cooldan

i like pizza
10 Years
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
6,958
Location
Ealing, London
hey there pinheads :cool:



my Rocky & Bullwinkle is filthy, and i've never done much to it since i got it, apart from nailing together a cabinet back, which was completely missing (and so the legs couldn't attach properly). anyway, i decided it's time to go shopping. great game, loads of fun, it ain't going anywhere. i've played hundreds of games on it without any problems, but it shows its age like the rest of us, and could do with a facelift - and since new games moved into the tiki hut, not much love has been showed to my R&B - so it's time for action.



[attachment=1117:2.jpg]



the first mistake i made was when the playfield fell off its supports as i was lifting it up and trying to get a few extra inches of lift, beyond the vertical i think - it toppled and i wasn't strong enough by myself to get it back on, so instead i wrestled it to the position you see here:



[attachment=1118:17.jpg]



i suspect i'm not the only one to have done this, so i didn't worry too much as it didn't seem to have damaged anything. you can also see my back wall carpentry bodge in that picture
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so anyway, i took lots of pictures and tried to plan what to do first. i found plenty of broken plastics and lots of grimy trails and smeared novus, but apart from a missing Nell log motor, it all seems in pretty good nick even close up.



View attachment 1306



i set to work, removing stuff, noting it down in a book, and bagging stuff up in numbered bags. i managed to get to this stage after taking off all the plastics and ramps and toys and stuff:



[attachment=1120:IMG_3168.JPG]



which leaves me with this lot:



[attachment=1121:1.jpg]



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and so i come to my questions for you lot:



1) that collection of bagged removed stuff all needs cleaning now, but i don't have either of the tools that i read everyone recommending, ie. an ultrasonic bath for plastics, a tumbler for metal. so what do people recommend? dishwasher? novus/rag/elbow grease? mr muscle, cillit bang, fairy liquid?



2) do i stop here and get straight to work on the playfield, or should i also try to remove all those posts and ball guides and stuff? is the extra effort worth it, or does that only apply for proper perfectionists, or top ten games?



3) i plan to change all the bulbs and all the rubbers, and also to replace the plunger/link/pawl assemblies, end stops, and coil sleeves. any other quick and cheap and easy tasks recommended?



4) for the playfield itself, i plan a once-over rather than a full on refurb. by this i mean foam cleaner then novus 2 then (perhaps) millwax, as per PH advice here http://www.pinballheaven.co.uk/shop/information.php?info_id=9. any alternative suggestions?



5) other: cabinet, legs, coin door, trim etc - meh, i couldn't care less about those, as they don't affect gameplay; the glass (and back glass) i'll clean with Mr Muscle or similar; the DMD will get a wipe down behind the glass to remove dust; fuses will be checked but i see no need to replace good ones; batteries are changed every year whether good or bad; am i missing anything?



thanks fellas



View attachment 1309
 
Alright mate.



I've done a few shop jobs now and I have my system. I'm sure it'll differ to others. It's down to what suits you.

Standards differ from person to person. Some will use all sorts of fancy machines to clean there parts, so once reassembled it looks better than new.

But I'm guessing you just want yours clean so it looks nice and helps it play better thus helping it keep cleaner for longer.



So to that end I wouldn't bother with supersonic cleaners!! Tumblers and the like!



I strip all the parts from above the pf. Taking lots of photos along the way. It may seem obvious at the time where it came from but fast forward a week or more after you've done a hundred other things and all of a sudden you gotta a giant jigsaw puzzle!!



Once ive got it stripped I take one of the many bags of bits, sit at the table with my foaming spray cleaner, novus 2 and autosol (not to be confused with anusol!!!) and get cleaning.

I generally spray everything with the foaming cleaner first to get all the dirt off then if it's a plastic, I novus both sides and buff with a microfiber cloth. And if it's metal it gets autosoled! I sometimes use a dremel to buff off the autosol to get a nice shine.



Then I throw all the plastic star posts in a washing up bowl and scrub them with a brush.



Clean all the ramps and wire forms etc.. Clear ramps need to be cleaned inside and out. They look nice when finished.

Once I've cleaned all the parts off the pf I begin cleaning the pf itself. That's just what I do.



Make sure you remove all the metal ball guides from the pf it gives you a much larger canvas to work with when cleaning. I'm sad and bought the treasure cove polish kit so it helps with the drill attachment to have as little on the pf as possible. Normally I'm left with stand up targets and bumpers.



It's important to remove and clean all the ball troughs, subways etc.. From under the pf as it will undo all your hard work as the dirt is immediately picked up and dragged round again.



I also clean all the coil plunger tips/ vuk cups, which touch the ball.

You might as well buy new balls (give them an autosol polish before installing) and new rubbers for what they cost.

I've posted a sttng shop log which has a few tips on it as well.



That's just my little method but I'm not producing pinball heaven better than new restorations, I just want a clean tidy machine.



Good luck mate, let us know how u get on



Gaz
 
My method is pretty much identical to Gaz's. Lots of photo's and the parts bagged up for specific mechs and parts of the pf. I fully strip the pf and any subways from underneath as well as the ball trough and other scoops. I'll also take off any drop bank target or game specific mechs and strip them down for cleaning as well.



For the first machine I did, I cleaned each bag of bits with the foaming spray cleaner but you can go through a can of that pretty quickly so now I just clean them at the sink in a bowl of warm soapy water...works just as well
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I have a little brush for cleaning most bits inc plastics and use scotchbrite pads for cleaning the metal ball guides etc. Anything plastic gets polished with Novus 2 and the metal gets polished with Autosol.



For the pf I start with foaming spray cleaner to get the most of the dust and crap off. Next I use Magic Eraser with water to get out any ground in dirt, ball swirls etc and this leaves a white residue behind. Before moving onto Novus 2 I clean things like the ss kickers using a stiff bristled paint brush and some Windowlene. I also clean the edges of any scoop holes and if they are worn I'll give them a very light sanding with fine grit wet'n'dry used dry. Then use Novus 2 on the whole pf to get the white residue of the Magic Eraser off and bring it up to a nice shine (might take a couple of goes). I don't have the polishing kit that Gaz uses so I have to do this by hand which is a bit of a ball ache. The last couple of things I do is paint some coats of Hard as Nails (it's for protecting the girlfriends posh nails) onto any scoops edges that I sanded as it acts like a clearcoat and gives them some protection before finally putting a couple of coats of wax on (I use Gerlitz No 1 carnauba wax....it's for waxing guitars).



Putting it all back together is the reverse of taking it to bits so I fire up the laptop and work backwards through the photos...job done
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It didn't take long for you to realise making your beloved table a pile of parts is almost as much fun as playing them
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.

The guys who have posted above have far more experience than me but I followed a similar path but have learnt a few things from the above posts. I do have a sonic cleaner if you want to borrow it next time I pop over, it has yet to be used on my pinball machine as it was bought to clean car injectors.
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What I will add is that any metal part left on has a tendency to rip my skin off when I try to polish the pf but my family motto is: if you aren't bleeding, you are not trying hard enough.
 
cheers fellas, very useful tips there. i think i'd better bite the bullet and remove everything on the playfield (apart from bumpers of course) so i can do the best job i can. it probably won't add more than a couple of hours, and those ball guides are pretty visible. i don't have a dremel or a buffer or any of that stuff, so i think elbow grease will have to do instead.



taking off the scoops and subways is something i'd forgotten but obviously important, as it's logical that gravity will mean loads of tiny ****ey bits of soot and crap and dry novus and dead bugs will find their way in there.



i'm guessing this is normal appearance for a dirty VUK:

[attachment=1123:IMG_3171.JPG]



another question - to get a flatter pf surface for cleaning, i'll have to remove all the bulbs. does this risk getting cleaning solvent in the bulb sockets, and is this a problem? anyone have any preference as to whether it's better to clean/replace bulbs, and whether this should be before or after the pf cleaning?



keep those cleaning tips coming guys
 
I always remove the bulbs. Never had an issue with **** clogging the holes. You could always bung them with something like cotton wool but I wouldn't bother.
 
Purchase an ultrasonic cleaner.



Well worth it. Annoying sound.. but worth it.
 
i don't have a dremel or a buffer or any of that stuff, so i think elbow grease will have to do instead.
Click to expand...



Don't worry about getting the marks out of the metal bal guides as they'll come straight back as soon as you start playing again. Just clean with a scotchbrite pad to make sure they're nice and clean. I made this mistake on my first shop job, spent ages with wet'n'dry on the metal and was a complete waste of time.



I'm guessing this is normal appearance for a dirty VUK
Click to expand...



Yes but thats not too dirty tbh
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'll have to remove all the bulbs. does this risk getting cleaning solvent in the bulb sockets, and is this a problem? anyone have any preference as to whether it's better to clean/replace bulbs, and whether this should be before or after the pf cleaning?
Click to expand...



Take out all of the bulbs before cleaning the pf, you shouldn't have any problems with stuff getting in the holes and causing problems as long as your not pouring a bucket of water over your pf
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If your treating the game then replace all with new bulbs (you don't have the game stripped down that often) or just plug the old ones back in and fire the game up to see which ones are out and just replace those. Consider replacing any that can only be accessed by stripping down a lot of the pf with LEDs (or at least put new bulbs here).
 
so i went through all the plastic bags and rinsed & dried everything, then novus-ed all the plastics. cleaned all the ramps and wireforms. more questions pop up as i go along, so i'll raise them here if that's ok.



1) in each bag i have plastics and metal bits. so far i've done nothing to all my screws and bolts and posts and whatnot, as i'm waiting on an ebay delivery of autosol (yes, i listen, and no, i didn't get anusol by mistake
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) ..... so i was wondering, people with tumblers, how do you know what was in what 'bag', or whatever? how do you know what went where?



2) when i try using novus on metal parts, i get a black cloth again and again and again.... then i stop. seems pointless, seems like a chemical reaction rather than cleaning, what's the story there then?



3) i have a big bagful of removed bulbs, is it ok to stick em all in the dishwasher, or do i have to clean them individually (what, IPA?) ..... i think it's just soot cleaning to be honest ..... anyway, if the bulbs are good, why chuck em out? ....... i'm not being mean, just obtuse - there's no test for good vs going vs gone with bulbs, and they're so easy to change, so why chuck out the ones that are still good?



4) i have a metal guide part that snapped as i was taking it off
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- any point in trying to fix it with superglue or (god forbid) extreme heat, or should i try to replace or just forget about it?



5) posts with black rubber skins - i'm not sure that all of these skins get included in a new rubbers bag, if not then is there a way to clean these things?



6) ?tip: taking pictures which include little blu-tac-ed bits of paper with numbers on seems to be a good idea to help with the notebook:

View attachment 1315

cmon guys, this is the sort of tip i'm hoping you can give me?



6) look at my latest playfield (click to enlarge)- anything else you see that can/should be taken off before pf cleaning?

[attachment=1127:30.jpg]
 
The metal forms should unbolt from underneath and then come off. Mine took a gentle bit of percussion maintenance from underneath to come free but then you can properly clean the play field.

Bolts, I use both autosol or novus 3/2 on them, I put a bit on a cloth, then rub the bolt head on the cloth not the cloth on the bolt head. The blackness is the compound taking the oxidisation and that reducing the oxides on the metal. Just takes sometime.

I got the ultrasonic cleaner out for you if you want to pop over....



It will go back together, most bolts are very similar or won't fit the location you try them in, as you find things that fit, the things that don't fit are reduced until you find a single hole and have a single left bolt, ying and yang, they go together.
 
thanks Geoff, i think i will come over to yours, not for the ultrasonic but to play on your TAF
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i dunno about individually cleaning every nut and bolt on a cloth, seems like a right pain in the ****. can't i just zap them with something ina bottle, like clever vinegar or something? again, it'd be nice to do the whole lot in one pile, but then i wouldn't know what came from where .......



another question - the edges of the mylar is pretty dirty:

[attachment=1128:5.jpg]



apart from a fingernail, is there a recommended tool to clean this crap out?



cheers fellas
 
apart from a fingernail, is there a recommended tool to clean this crap out?
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I used Magic Eraser when doing the mylar on my Whirlwind...cleaned up a treat
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Or you could remove it and replace with new ones...or just remove and leave it off. If your using a good wax to protect the pf then it's not needed in home use IMO.
 
I agree I tookmr ronsplooters advice and used the guitar wax,with a little elbow grease playfield comes up a treat!
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Go carefully with the magic eraser its like really good sandpaper. Its feels like its doing nothing and then you notice there is no paint left where you where rubbing





Dan I have a Rocky & Bullwinkle if you need some photos when reassembling, let me know
 
BigIan' date=' post: 1697001 said:
Dan I have a Rocky & Bullwinkle if you need some photos when reassembling, let me know
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oooh, fantastic thanks Ian
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. i was hoping i'd find someone with one, and i've no doubt whatsoever that i'll be bugging you for some help when it's time to reassemble. what's your top score then? :suspect: i think mine is about 300 or 400, something like that, but i can't remember ....... with a 'double your score' feature, i suspect that scores can easily go into several billion on a good game.



and has yours got a Nell log motor in it? mine has nothing there, but i read that this is pretty common as they fail all the time, being tiny yet constantly called-upon to count down modes etc. - so does the sawblade go round as the log (with Nell tied to it by the evil Snidely) approaches it, to be rescued in the nick of time, we hope.



thanks for the offer Geoff, but i could have saved your purchase as i have a bagful here you coulda had some from.



View attachment 1319



i just cleaned a bagful of bulbs using IPA on a cloth. gonna try the same technique with the black-rubbered posts. not sure how i'm gonna use this autosol metal polish, as i don't fancy attacking every nut and bolt (too lazy) ....... maybe i'll just do the pieces that are big enough to hold onto.



View attachment 1320
 
cooldan' date=' post: 1696980 said:
thanks Geoff, i think i will come over to yours, not for the ultrasonic but to play on your TAF
tongue-1.png




i dunno about individually cleaning every nut and bolt on a cloth, seems like a right pain in the ****. can't i just zap them with something ina bottle, like clever vinegar or something? again, it'd be nice to do the whole lot in one pile, but then i wouldn't know what came from where .......



another question - the edges of the mylar is pretty dirty:

View attachment 1318



apart from a fingernail, is there a recommended tool to clean this crap out?



cheers fellas
Click to expand...

Ear buds?
 
cooldan' date=' post: 1696980 said:
another question - the edges of the mylar is pretty dirty:

View attachment 1318



apart from a fingernail, is there a recommended tool to clean this crap out?



cheers fellas
Click to expand...



A sharp plastic toothpick type of thing and the cleaner of your choice can help remove some of it. If the dirt is really far under sometimes the only option is mylar removal .... if you really can't live with it.



Actually , thats in front of a sling and not over any inserts so would be very easy to remove without any undue risk.
 
Finally. I just finished cleaning the contents of all the bags plus all the ball guides and ramps/subway etc, after properly stripping the playfield and dis/reassembling all main mechanical bits.



[attachment=1131:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345940179.818394.jpg]



Next stage is to clean the plunger and kickback tips, both VUK surfaces, and ball trough - anywhere the ball goes, basically. Then I'll hoover the cabinet and wipe down the DMD, and consider doing something about that mylar. Hmmmmmm.



Then it's playfield time： foam cleaner; a couple of goes with the novus; and finally some wax (which I've not done before).......... and I start putting it all back together, starting with bag 18.



[attachment=1132:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1345940713.806463.jpg]
 
My main problem in reassembly is that I have nowhere near enough photos to do it properly. Plenty of little bags have one long and one short post, but no written or photographic clues of what goes where
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Next time loads more notes, loads more pictures, loads more pics with numbers in the photos to match up.



Still enjoying it though. Latest pic here:



[attachment=1184:ImageUploadedByTapatalk1346420602.340140.jpg]



Funny how many extra things crop up that need doing when you start a project like this. I forgot all the plastics (and four coils) behind the translite, and plenty more.



I bought steel wool for metals but next time may try some new chemical too. All rubbers being replaced, and some other new bits. ROM needs an update, flipper plungers need replacing. May clean the playfield clear windows (inserts?) with something.



Anyone got a spare Nell motor, by any chance?
 
Great work so far Danny-Boy, that looks awesomely clean. I know just what you mean about pictures, you can never take too many for a job like this and you know that best when you realise you are not sure where things go. Sometimes the plastics help you know where things go as they have bolt holes or something to give you a clue. Slowly the pile of bits will get smaller.
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